To say there are some decent men

[Poppyscone]

I know there are many threads about how shit men are. It may be a shit partner not helping, abused by a stranger, sexism etc etc etc.

But to say some men are decent. My DH said this morning re the policemen just sentenced “we men are mostly basically shit aren’t we”
I told him he was one of the good ones and the good ones need to carry on trying to challenging these men who basically hate women
My DH had challenged many men over their behaviour towards women including dropping friendships.

I have epilepsy and DH had always had my back and supported me. Done more then his fare share with kids including most night feeds as well as working full time which I can do. Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining.

He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex and is a good dad.

Yep sure he had his faults he is a bit disorganised and he seems to think dirty clothes belong on the bedroom floor (but does pick them up when asked)
He snores like a machine gun and I have to wear earplug but on the whole he is a decent bloke and I am sure there are many more out there. I would just like to here about them

@FourTeaFallOut

Does that mean women can't be trusted with babies?

Do you see women making baby killing jokes? Do women have catalogues of child abuse on their hard drives? Do they sit around with their mates silently ignoring a host of red flags that they are about to harm a baby?

Exactly. This.

If a woman made a 'joke' about harming a baby in the pub, her female friends wouldn't laugh as if it were hilarious, would they? If a woman is seen smacking or insulting her child, other women don't just ignore it, do they? Or make light of it?

And women are more likely to murder our newborn infants than anybody else. Does that mean women can't be trusted with babies?

Do women sit down the pub making jokes about killing babies? Do you hear anyone saying the babies are 'asking for it' when they get murdered?

Its not fucking comparable in any fucking way.

Stats for that?

Parental infanticide researchers have found that mothers are far more likely than fathers to be the perpetrators of neonaticide[2] and slightly more likely to commit infanticide in general.[3]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide

Obviously most women don't commit infanticide, but since we can't tell the good and bad ones apart, we need to be very wary of women being left alone with babies.

Men get a tough press. I also have many cracking male friends. I'm a firm feminist and lover of men, I can be both.

People who are concerned about male violence and abuse of women are not haters of men. Most will have many men in their lives that they love, just like you. You are spectacularly missing the point, do we have to have a NAMALT thread every single time there is a news story about male violence?

It's really not. The devastating details of the Sarah Everard case have affected us all, this doesn't mean we demonise an entire sex.

Nobody has done that.

We can state the fact that almost all violent crime is committed by men and examine why and push for policies to prevent it, without remotely "demonising" men who do not do those things.

@FOJN

Women do hideous things too but I don't think I've ever heard a woman say NAWALT. Perhaps because when women do awful things we don't make it about us and we can think of the victims of their appalling actions.

Why do we put up with men always making it about them? If you're not a violent arsehole or sexual predator then we're not talking about you. If, when confronted with the evidence of how violent men can be, all a man has to contribute is NAMALT that then it's probably best if they just pipe down.

It's not my job to confirm they're one of the good guys so their feelings are't hurt and I won't be congratulating any bloke who manages not to rape or murder, that is not the fucking criteria for hero status.

👏👏👏

@birdglasspen

How do men sort out their sex? Parents should bring up their children to respect themselves and woman.

Why has no one ever thought of that before?! Hey everyone, it’s simple! Just bring up your children to respect themselves and women 🙄 FFS. Do you really think parents don’t strive to bring their children up that way?

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@TractorAndHeadphones

Honestly? There are shitty men but the ones who are violent to the point of abuse definitely have some form of mental disorder. Casual misogyny as a result of the patriarchy etc is one thing but to kidnap and kill a woman something is seriously wrong.

You can't separate the two 'types' though because they are absolutely connected and one feeds the other.

It's casual misogyny that leads to boys growing into men who nickname their colleague 'the rapist' instead of flagging concerns about him or refusing to engage with him at all.

If every single colleague who witnessed whatever behaviour led to that nickname had challenged him, filed a report and expressed concerns that his attitude towards women was an issue... maybe he wouldn't have still been a serving police officer and therefore this particular, horrific, heartbreaking crime wouldn't have been committed.

That's just one instance that shows how casual misogyny enables men who hate women to hide in plain sight under the thin veil of 'lads lads lads' or similar to escalate into being offenders.

And I tell you what, it won't have been female officers who came up with and kept using that nickname for it. It will be fellow officers who would probably all be called 'good men' by their loved ones because they haven't directly hurt them.

Maybe they've never directly hurt any woman themselves. Maybe they are horrified he has. But the casual use of that disgusting nickname, especially in his role as a police officer, by not one but a GROUP of colleagues shows how casual the attitude towards women being sexually assaulted and raped is doesn't it? [/quote]
Indeed. Any any police officer who thinks it is appropriate to joke about rape should be sacked from the police immediately. How are they screening and recruiting these people?? Friends who are police tell me that it is the most misogynist environment they have ever encountered.

Apparently several of them stood up in court today to say what a great guy he is. 🤬

Men get a tough press

You must be joking?! They get a far better press than they’ve ever deserved, mostly because they’ve been the authors of it.

How do men sort out their sex?

By calling out misogynist behaviour and humiliating those making inappropriate comments about women/ behaving inappropriately to women every single time they witness it in a group of men. By making it clear to other men that it is as disgusting as racism and cutting off contact with any "friends" who behave like that.

Not by sitting quietly ignoring it all and feeling smug that they are a "good guy" just for not joining in.

This thread is in such poor taste.

How about we concentrate on the victims today and not poor men.

Every three days in the UK, a woman is killed by a man.

Imagine it was the other way around. Every three days, a woman kills a man. How scared would you be for your sons? For your husbands? Let’s be realistic, a man is found Not Guilty of rape and there are already swathes of women saying dreadful things about lying women and how they fear for their sons. So ask yourself whether you’d feel that fear for them, and anger that nothing is being done about it. And, if so, ask yourself why you don’t feel it for women.

My daughters are 7 and 4.

I am so frightened for them. For so many reasons.

I wish I could keep them here with me forever.

For everyone who thinks that THEIR male relatives etc would never do anything, and it's only a tiny minority of men, please read this. www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/third-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html

I was shocked when I first read it (it's about 5 years ago), the amount of men who either don't think it's rape, or who would rape if they could get away with it.

‘Obviously most women don't commit infanticide, but since we can't tell the good and bad ones apart, we need to be very wary of women being left alone with babies.’

We are. That’s part of the reason why after you have a baby community midwives and health visitors keep showing up at your house to see what is going on.

We also do have a whole system of working out which families and children are most at risk and putting additional support and safeguarding in place before new babies are born in those families.

@Theoldprospector

‘Obviously most women don't commit infanticide, but since we can't tell the good and bad ones apart, we need to be very wary of women being left alone with babies.’

We are. That’s part of the reason why after you have a baby community midwives and health visitors keep showing up at your house to see what is going on.

We also do have a whole system of working out which families and children are most at risk and putting additional support and safeguarding in place before new babies are born in those families.

This is such a good point.

Every single man who doesn’t call out misogyny in all forms is part of the problem.

Not least those mild mannered unthreatening types who look the other way because it doesn’t affect them. You know, the “good guys.”

My husband was like that but 15 years of marriage to me has trained him somewhat.
Tonight he said “if you ever want to protest, I’ll come with you”. He had enough.

We need more of that, OP, and less simpering about how great your husband is.

Most men and most women are decent and have a moral code - it is a small minority as in all societies who sadly cause issues. I believe that the vast majority of the male population behave appropriately, but the behaviour of a minority is a huge concern. I want everyone to feel safe when they walk home at whatever time of night - I am not sure how we as a society achieve that.

@twelly

Most men and most women are decent and have a moral code - it is a small minority as in all societies who sadly cause issues. I believe that the vast majority of the male population behave appropriately, but the behaviour of a minority is a huge concern. I want everyone to feel safe when they walk home at whatever time of night - I am not sure how we as a society achieve that.

I believe that the vast majority of the male population behave appropriately, but the behaviour of a minority is a huge concern.

You believe the majority of men challenge sexist or misogynist comments their friends / family members / colleagues make whenever they hear them?

That simply isn't true. Which means they are part of the problem.

We need more of that, OP, and less simpering about how great your husband is

You’re doing just that though. Just in a different way.

Nope, I don’t think my husbands great on women’s rights. He’s not angry enough about the way women are treated. He has, in the past, let questionable comments and jokes slide by without uttering a word.

We have had many many discussions about how it feels to be shorter smaller and pphhter than nearly any man (I am 5”2)

But he’s beginning to challenge and call out behaviours. If people including men, especially men, are not calling out this sort of behaviour then nothing will change.

It’s not enough to be passive. Too many men are passive.

it is really offensive to compare women killing their infants to men killing women.

How many women kill their infants every year in the UK?

How many men kill women every year in the UK?

I worked for years for an engineering company doing big water systems. They were rightly obsessed with qa/qc because if people didn't follow the procedures you could flood a town/wastewater treatement plant whatever.

when something bad happened they never wasted their time saying "not all engineers are like that" they just fixed the bloody problem and went on enforcing the rules.

I believe that most humans act appropriately. Challenging or not challenging others is not the problem - we don't all challenged others on comments we wouldn't have said ourselves in life. What we might say to our children or partner would be different when talking with others - most would challenge their views and want the home to reflect their attitudes - not the same in a social situation but it depends upon what was said or done. I think the term misogyinistic is over used.This case is appalling and steps need to be taken, greater vetting of the police, increased CCTV cameras etc

@twelly

I believe that most humans act appropriately. Challenging or not challenging others is not the problem - we don't all challenged others on comments we wouldn't have said ourselves in life. What we might say to our children or partner would be different when talking with others - most would challenge their views and want the home to reflect their attitudes - not the same in a social situation but it depends upon what was said or done. I think the term misogyinistic is over used.This case is appalling and steps need to be taken, greater vetting of the police, increased CCTV cameras etc

It is absolutely the problem. Not challenging a sexist remark is condoning it. If someone says something vile about women and nobody says anything, it's sending them a message that what they're saying is OK.

Not challenging the sexist remarks IS the culture of misogyny in which raping, battering and occasionally murdering scumbags are forged.