To say there are some decent men

[Poppyscone]

I know there are many threads about how shit men are. It may be a shit partner not helping, abused by a stranger, sexism etc etc etc.

But to say some men are decent. My DH said this morning re the policemen just sentenced “we men are mostly basically shit aren’t we”
I told him he was one of the good ones and the good ones need to carry on trying to challenging these men who basically hate women
My DH had challenged many men over their behaviour towards women including dropping friendships.

I have epilepsy and DH had always had my back and supported me. Done more then his fare share with kids including most night feeds as well as working full time which I can do. Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining.

He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex and is a good dad.

Yep sure he had his faults he is a bit disorganised and he seems to think dirty clothes belong on the bedroom floor (but does pick them up when asked)
He snores like a machine gun and I have to wear earplug but on the whole he is a decent bloke and I am sure there are many more out there. I would just like to here about them

he lets me sleep and recover after a seizure

he never pesters for sex

This is what you chose to mention to define your ‘decent man’. Shouldn’t that be standard and not even worth mentioning?

You’ve literally defined the very problem with that description.

I have to say some of you are heaping praise on normal decent behaviour as if it is an altruistic act. These are not exemplary examples of good behaviour

Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining you have a Health condition that deplete your energies and you need to recover. A reasonable person would get that
He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex I should hope this is the case,that he is supportive and gives approbation. He’s not doing you a favour by not pestering for sex. Decent mean don’t pester, aren’t pests
is a good dad I should hope so. Again it’s not like he’s doing you a favour

These are absolute minimum non-negotiable behaviour

It would be SO nice if, after such a harrowing week for women, people didn't harp on NAMALT. It's not the right time.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@OhWhyNot,

And what is the cause of the misogyny?

And please don’t bash out that tired old trope ‘the patriarchy’, because I don’t see much evidence of misogyny in my well educated, kind, considerate male friends and family.[/quote]
'The patriarchy' is institutional. Not individual.

'The patriarchy' is simply the inherent social and cultural structures that have been built up over the centuries. Because these structures have been implemented and built of by mainly white males, it favours them. It's not a trope. There are thousands of examples of the way society, having been built by and for men, has put women at a disadvantage.

The reason you don't see it at an individual level is because you're looking at your own microcosm of society: you surround yourself with people who fit your social bias.

It's like looking at a leaf under a microscope. Up close all you see are individual cells abd you have no sense of the overall structure. Zoom out and look at the bigger picture, snd there it is.

Just like the patriarchy. It infiltrates everything and will take generations to correct because patriarchal views get passed down the line, perpetuating the problem.

I agree in this of all weeks,I’d really like to not hear the chorus of NAMALT
I’d like as a woman to have our experience heard,have ability to reflect and share experiences without someone banging on what about three men?

I’ve seen and experienced misogyny delivered in well modulated tone,by well educated men. Being well qualified with professional qualifications doesn’t render one immune from being a boorish overbearing man. So yes these lovely men, they’re capable of discriminatory behaviour too

he never pesters me for sex
A prince amongst men..

@EspressoDoubleShot,

You accused me of using silencing language by using the term ‘woke’.

NAMALT is just the same; no interest in hearing different opinions, just agree and applaud.

Nope, sorry.

It is interesting that the loud posters are all saying the same thing. The vote, on the other hand, is far closer 9:11. I wonder why the majority of the 45% in agreement with the OP are not posting.

shreddednips
I'm really angry. I've just walked down the street to buy a bar of chocolate from the shops and been harassed by a man practically outside my house, making lewd comments and stupid animal noises at me while his two friends stand there looking awkward and do fuck all as I scamper off feeling humiliated. It's exhausting. Bet their wives think they're nice men too.

No, no, no shreddednips. You've got it all wrong.
You must live next to CecilieRose and me, because its the same man/men going around sexually harassing women, apparently.

There's not a problem with men around the country engaging in intimidating, harassing behaviour. Now, now we mustn't upset mens feelings.

Accused? That’s a touch of hyperbole. I disputed your language. Tell your solicitor they’re not required @TheReluctantPhoenix

@Katyppp

Just idly wondering if you would be happy to have your sons spoken about in such terms. But no matter

I have a son that I love dearly but I fail to see what this has to do with him. I am entitled to my anger that yet another young woman is dead because other men failed to hold him to account. I would be ashamed if my son chose to put his feelings above justified anger and horror at yet another senseless murder.

@EspressoDoubleShot

I have to say some of you are heaping praise on normal decent behaviour as if it is an altruistic act. These are not exemplary examples of good behaviour

Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining you have a Health condition that deplete your energies and you need to recover. A reasonable person would get that
He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex I should hope this is the case,that he is supportive and gives approbation. He’s not doing you a favour by not pestering for sex. Decent mean don’t pester, aren’t pests
is a good dad I should hope so. Again it’s not like he’s doing you a favour

These are absolute minimum non-negotiable behaviour

Yes I’m sorry op but please think about whether your dh would rain praise upon you for the same things. And if not, why not?

Men are too often lauded for basic human decency which would be completely taken for granted if it was a woman. This is a huge part of the problem.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@EspressoDoubleShot,

Well I think ‘Espresso’ in a user name shows precisely the demographic you wish to be associated with….[/quote]
Huh? What does ^^ mean?

How was it harrowing?
Women sat up and looked at the situation around them. Some of them looked at the numbers. They were disturbed by their findings. It triggered many female victims of male violence against women and children. It exposed systemic misogyny. Many many women who, all their lives, trusted the police protect them no longer do so.

It's been a pretty shit week for women whose eyes have been opened.

How was it harrowing? I had a fairly normal week.

What a vile thing to say. You know full well why it was harrowing. It was hugely upsetting both for people who have been victims of violent crime as well as anyone with an ounce of empathy hearing the details of an horrific murder. The details, reported widely, were hugely upsetting and shocking.

And it was something that could have happened to anyone because of the level of deception involved - which meant women knew we would have also fallen for the most terrible trap.

You can't be for real and I'm not engaging further with someone who says shit like 'how has this week been harrowing?' knowing full well why it has.

Sick, twisted and pathetic. I feel sorry for you.

@ColorMagicBarbie that was vile , insensitive and in extremely bad taste right now

Sarah was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, this could have been any of us
Our daughter, sister, cousin , best friend, that girl you wave to on the tube , the one you know gives you a good measure in the pub , your brother gf, anyone at all

Shame on you

However, I don’t ask black people to solve their own problems or think that blacks are dangerous. I recognise that, like all of us, most of them are nice and honourable, but a minority are not.

I wasn't going to come back to the thread now the NAMLT apologists for violent men are spouting so much nonsense but this from @TheReluctantPhoenix pretty much takes the cake.

Once more for the hard of thinking:

• NAMLT is not appropriate when we are talking about male violence against women and girls

• this comparison so completely misses the point i want to scream. We are asking men to call out other men because it is men causing the harm, and those men causing the harm (from catcalling to murder and everything in between) DO NOT LISTEN TO WOMEN WHEN WE ASK/TELL THEM TO STOP IT

The comparison with "well we don't tell black people to sort racism out" is pathetic. A second of thought would have shown you that when the racism is by white people on black WHITE PEOPLE CALLING OUT RACISTS AMONG THEIR NUMBERS ARE REQUIRED since, as with the male VAWAG racists don't listen when their targets ask them to stop it.

It really isn't rocket science.

There is at least one battered man for eBay three women, but there is not one now shelter for every three female ones.

NOT THIS SHITE AGAIN. Do you know how women got "battered women shelters"? Men didn't set them up. Women did. But god forbid men do anything to solve their own problems.

To those saying it hasn't been a harrowing week, it really has for a lot of women. I work with standard NHS patients, (not a mental health unit) and so many women have brought up this subject this week and said how it has upset them. God only knows how those with pre-existing mental health conditions, like anxiety and depression, feel.
I've had conversations with my lads about consent, about crossing the road to avoid scaring a woman at night, about calling out their mates for sexism and misogyny. Being allies really. They seem as disgusted as I am. But we need more, it needs to be on the curriculum and that fucking "Karen" nonsense needs to stop.

How was it harrowing? I had a fairly normal week

Colours. Shown.

How was it harrowing? I had a fairly normal week.

Good for you.

For those of us who paid attention, it was harrowing.

For those of us who've experienced male violence against women, it was harrowing.

For those of us who have lost someone at the hands of a violent man, it was harrowing.

It must be nice to be so blinkered to the horrors of the world.

Sorry, but for it to be a personally harrowing week I’d have to lose a close relative or something similar. If you’re ‘harrowed’, meaning presumably you were too beside yourself to go to work etc, because that’s what it means, then you’re obviously oblivious to what happens around the world every single day.

@Brefugee

However, I don’t ask black people to solve their own problems or think that blacks are dangerous. I recognise that, like all of us, most of them are nice and honourable, but a minority are not.

I wasn't going to come back to the thread now the NAMLT apologists for violent men are spouting so much nonsense but this from @TheReluctantPhoenix pretty much takes the cake.

Once more for the hard of thinking:

• NAMLT is not appropriate when we are talking about male violence against women and girls

• this comparison so completely misses the point i want to scream. We are asking men to call out other men because it is men causing the harm, and those men causing the harm (from catcalling to murder and everything in between) DO NOT LISTEN TO WOMEN WHEN WE ASK/TELL THEM TO STOP IT

The comparison with "well we don't tell black people to sort racism out" is pathetic. A second of thought would have shown you that when the racism is by white people on black WHITE PEOPLE CALLING OUT RACISTS AMONG THEIR NUMBERS ARE REQUIRED since, as with the male VAWAG racists don't listen when their targets ask them to stop it.

It really isn't rocket science.

Almost 9/10 gang members are from ethnic minorities. Why don’t you think they should tackle it if men are expected to speak out against male violence?

The proportion of suspects on the Metropolitan police’s gangs matrix from minority ethnic groups has increased to nearly nine in 10, according to the force’s own figures.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/29/rise-in-proportion-bame-suspects-met-police-gangs-matrix

I think, re being ‘harrowed’ or not, it is not for one person to police another’s feelings.

If you are genuinely traumatised by this particular murder (and given it was a policeman doing the murdering, it is understandable), your feelings are to be respected.

However it is equally fine to not be ‘harrowed’. I am not. I think statistically and am always suspicious of the media whipping up hysteria. There are 14 murders every week and, even given that, I am far more ‘harrowed’ by COVID and the fracturing of society via food and petrol shortages etc.

And my feelings are also valid and it is not for a stranger to tell me that they are not.

Re ‘men sorting out men’s issues’, I have always found this ridiculous and always will. Unless you want to live in a segregated society (like Saudi Arabia, for instance), and most here just don’t, any problem will (or won’t) be solved by both sexes working together. Do you want separate male committees in parliament to sort out ‘male problems’ and female committees to sort out ‘female problems’.

I think that would be an incredibly retrograde step.