To say there are some decent men

[Poppyscone]

I know there are many threads about how shit men are. It may be a shit partner not helping, abused by a stranger, sexism etc etc etc.

But to say some men are decent. My DH said this morning re the policemen just sentenced “we men are mostly basically shit aren’t we”
I told him he was one of the good ones and the good ones need to carry on trying to challenging these men who basically hate women
My DH had challenged many men over their behaviour towards women including dropping friendships.

I have epilepsy and DH had always had my back and supported me. Done more then his fare share with kids including most night feeds as well as working full time which I can do. Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining.

He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex and is a good dad.

Yep sure he had his faults he is a bit disorganised and he seems to think dirty clothes belong on the bedroom floor (but does pick them up when asked)
He snores like a machine gun and I have to wear earplug but on the whole he is a decent bloke and I am sure there are many more out there. I would just like to here about them

@brefugee,

As I pointed out earlier, if men and women were these separate species who only interacted as predator/prey, the type of ‘analysis’ on this thread would make sense.

The reality is most men are brought up at least equally by women and most cohabit with women for at least a part of their adult lives. So, the idea that males alone are capable of influencing male violence is just not right. If every single man called out every piece of misogyny, my bet is that it would have very limited effect.

The reality is that, within all the great apes (including us) males have far more testosterone, making them bigger, stronger and more aggressive. Totally ignoring this (as this type of thread always does) is ignoring the massive elephant standing right in the middle of the room.

The same testosterone that makes men ‘manly’, gives them their sex drive and makes them attractive to women, also gives them a greater propensity to violence, if it is misdirected. It also, as pointed out above, though, means that most rescuers are also male. The heroic pilots who flew in above Chernobyl, dropping concrete to stabilise the reactor, in certain knowledge of their own deaths were all men (as far as I know), as were the firefighters running upstairs in the twin towers as everyone else was running down.

There are few things in life that are 100% good or 100% bad.

We can, as a society, continue to work together to improve men’s behaviour. But blaming ‘all men’ or thinking only men can alter other men’s behaviour is good for a sound bite, but little else. The problems are deep and complex.

(And, police are a really bad subsection of men to judge ‘men’ by. Although many are honourable, many join for the power and having legalised scraps).

Most men like most women are basically decent, honest and law abiding. The last assertion must be true given the small percentage who are in prison, in court and the crime rates. Sadly the news is full of those who break the law and commit horrendous crimes.

@TheReluctantPhoenix You;ve confused the amount of time women spend with their partners and children with the amount of influence they have over them.

Our children grow up with the accent of their peers, not their mothers.

Nobody on here is saying all men are bad.

We don't know which ones are bad though.

If I gave you a bag of 10 sweets and told you only one of them would poison you would you happily eat some because the chances of eating the poisoned one is low, or would you think "fuck it I'm not eating them, one is poisoned".

Same applies here, we don't know which men are good men, for our own safety we need to be careful.

My son is a good lad, but I wouldn't get upset if someone was scared by him, he looks scary as hell if you don't know him, I've raised him to do as much as possible to not scare people, be aware when he is walking behind someone at night and cross the road etc. He gets it, he has sisters, 2 of which have been sexually harassed by men in the street and boys at school - they are 11 and 13, they now carry rape alarms and other bits to defend themselves, should they ever need to. This is what it has come to - because of men, regardless of how many of them have saved puppies or whatever.

I don't agree that it's a minority of men.
I think the majority of men are misoginists.
I live in a very nice area. Across from me is a detached 4 bedroomed house. They drive 2 very expensive cars.
Dd's bedroom overlooks their back garden.
Immediately after Lloyd George was murdered they had a bbq. Dd told me she had to slam her bedroom window shut after hearing how the men in the garden spoke about black people and women.
I'm quite sure they would be regarded as totally normal, decent blokes by the people who knew them. Obviously in private they are not.

Let's not forget the vast majority of crimes against women go unreported. Rapes, assaults, verbal abuse etc etc etc you only see the top of the ice berg.
I did a random pole some time back.
Every single female so 100% had suffered verbal abuse whilst walking to and from school. Think about that. in every case the abuser was a man not a fellow school child but a man screaming sexual abuse at a school girl.
The males were asked the same question 0% of them had ever suffered the same abuse whilst a school boy. So no woman they had ever encountered had made the streets near them unsafe.
We did not go any further than this but I myself was raped repeatedly as a young child. The rapist was never punished.
Just let those statistics sink in 0% for boys. 100% for girls.
Not by the same men.
It is not a minority of men.
Logic dictates it simply cannot be.

Ffs

Men don’t need sticking up for

Women and girls need to be safe from the dangerous men out there that is is issue

Oh and I doubt I too live on the same street as the previous posters who were screamed at by men.
It really is everywhere.

Saying there are good men doesn’t address the fact that women are suffering violence at the hands of men on a daily basis and that the institutions and authorities who should be trying to deal with this just aren’t and so t take it seriously enough.
The fact your DH - and my dad, and my BIL and my best friends DH and my best mate Ian- is a lovely bloke and doesn’t hit, rape or murder women doesn’t change a thing.
Men don’t need anyone sticking up for them

• women do.

Women are exhausted having to tippy toe or explain or listen to NAMALT when we openly talk about the everyday shite we live with. I’m not talking the things that make it into the newspapers or reported crime. I’m talking the daily and repeated crap women and girls experience. We are openly discussing it a lot in aftermath of Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa, this makes people uncomfortable. It should make people angry and uncomfortable, galvanised into doing something.

Upon reflection There is not a woman or girl I know who has not
experienced an unwanted unsolicited comment about her appearance
Had to pretend to be on the phone to avoid an interaction
Has felt scared when a man suddenly overtakes or walks by, too close
*Phones ahead to get a lift or met from transport hub instead of a shortcut through the park

So in the week a depraved violent man is sentenced I want to the focus to be what do we do,how do we protect Woman and Girl. Not some fluffy wuffy NAMALT ohh my man he even picks up his own clothes big fuckin whoop di doop.

POC aren't dangerous.

Men are.

Stop bringing colour into an issue that is absolutely nothing to do with it.

POC have been living in a society where they have always been oppressed, and struggles coming from that are solely down to systemic racism.

Men, on the other hand, have never lived in a world where they have never been oppressed, they have been brought up in a society that puts them above everybody else, they are dangerous because they don't want that privilege taken away from them. It doesn't benefit them to have others equal to them, I've seen men wanting praise because they 'let women' have the vote, rather than being disgusted we never had it in the first place they want thanks. Men feel entitled to women, and they disregard us as oversensitive when we pull them up on their behaviour, which is ALWAYS about oppressing women, as though they have entitlement to look and talk about us and touch us whenever they want. Sadly it's not only society that supports this, the law does too, thanks to the shockingly low rape convictions, its clear it centres men too.

Women wanting safety and equality doesn't take anything away from men that they shouldn't have had in the first place.

Race and sex are not comparable and the fact you're having to corolate the two to support your stance shows your view for exactly what it is.

@Onlinedilema

Let's not forget the vast majority of crimes against women go unreported. Rapes, assaults, verbal abuse etc etc etc you only see the top of the ice berg. I did a random pole some time back. Every single female so 100% had suffered verbal abuse whilst walking to and from school. Think about that. in every case the abuser was a man not a fellow school child but a man screaming sexual abuse at a school girl. The males were asked the same question 0% of them had ever suffered the same abuse whilst a school boy. So no woman they had ever encountered had made the streets near them unsafe. We did not go any further than this but I myself was raped repeatedly as a young child. The rapist was never punished. Just let those statistics sink in 0% for boys. 100% for girls. Not by the same men. It is not a minority of men. Logic dictates it simply cannot be.

Agree wholeheartedly with your post, Worst bit is I’m not surprised. How sad is that?

I am sorry you’ve experienced rape sexual violence

My friend 13yo daughter sometimes wears PE kit travelling home from school, at least she did until men habitually and repeatedly made lewd comment and stared.

Now she wears tracky bottoms

13yo and she’s learning she’s got to curtail her behaviour because of men. She’s a child. Sexualised by men. Made to feel scared and awkward by men

[quote CBUK2K2]@TooBigForMyBoots Well according to the ONS 2.3 million people (1.6 million women) experienced domestic violence out of in 2020. That’s about 4% and these figures appear to include a wide range of crimes form sexual assault and stalking to intimate partner violence. I’d say 3 in 100 was a pretty small number.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/domesticabuseinenglandandwalesoverview/november2020#latest-figures-for-the-year-ending-march-2020[/quote]
3% of men is 987,000. That's not a tiny number. That's is the number of reported instances of DV. According to CSEW data for the year ending March 2018, only 18% of women who had experienced partner abuse in the last 12 months reported the abuse to the police. So the true figure is more like 5 million men committing DV alone! That's not a tiny number. And doesnt include violence and sexual violence outside of a DV setting, such as trafficking and sexual exploitation, groping, indecent exposure, rape from a non intimate partner, harassment, assault, child abuse etc.

@CBUK2K2
I’m not actually going to go get the data,the research to demonstrate male violence because you know what this tired trope of demanding evidence , it’s a diversion to divert and distract from the irrefutable fact men are more violent & aggressive to women, than women to men. Fact

So what are your thoughts on how do we socially and institutionally address this?

Upon reflection

There is not a woman or girl I know who has not experienced an unwanted unsolicited comment about her appearance
Had to pretend to be on the phone to avoid an interaction
Has felt scared when a man suddenly overtakes or walks by, too close

What makes you assume men don't feel the same way? Especially given that they're 4x more likely to actually be attacked (as opposed to just feeling scared).

Most men who I've asked have been assaulted at some point.

No one assumes men don't feel the same way, got any evidence for that claim?

If they do, why can't they empathise with women and 'get' why we feel so fucking scared? Why are there so many threads from women asking why their partner doesn't get it?

If your going to c&p my post get right
I’m talking about the experience of when discussing the shite women put up with we always have to tippy toe and be reprimanded that NAMALT or the men suffer too.
Bang on cue! you’ve turned up copied & posted my incomplete post to tell me that men suffer too. Well in the week a man received a whole life tariff for raping & murdering a woman I don’t want to get diverted by whatabootery

@ColorMagicBarbie

Upon reflection

There is not a woman or girl I know who has not experienced an unwanted unsolicited comment about her appearance
Had to pretend to be on the phone to avoid an interaction
Has felt scared when a man suddenly overtakes or walks by, too close

What makes you assume men don't feel the same way? Especially given that they're 4x more likely to actually be attacked (as opposed to just feeling scared).

Most men who I've asked have been assaulted at some point.

4 x more likely to be attacked. By other men.

Male violence is STILL the issue.

@Thelnebriati

No one assumes men don't feel the same way, got any evidence for that claim?

If they do, why can't they empathise with women and 'get' why we feel so fucking scared? Why are there so many threads from women asking why their partner doesn't get it?

Probably for the same reason that black people aren't bending over backwards to empathise with white people worried about facing racism.

Women aren't the principle victims of violence, despite apparently trying hard to stake their claim. I wonder why so many don't 'get' this fact.

4 x more likely to be attacked. By other men.

Male violence is STILL the issue.

Nobody is contesting this.

But why shouldn't the non violent majority focus their efforts on the demographic most affected by the violent minority?

Women are not the principle perpetrators of violence. That means we are disproportionately affected by male violence.

You’re just purposefully provocative @ColorMagicBarbie
Its obvious and boring.
As I said I’m not going to engage with whitabootery

Women are not the principle perpetrators of violence.

Neither are most men.

I can't stop a violent bloke from hitting his wife behind closed doors. What I can do is try and offer support to those that want to leave/need help.

Ideally, we would help everybody but it's illogical to focus the majority of support on the group less affected. The impact already shows with there being hardly any hostels for men, to the point where some councils have just told men "Sorry, we can't help" (true story from a documentary).

There is at least one battered man for eBay three women, but there is not one now shelter for every three female ones. However, in reality the % of victims is likely much closer as men don't like to report and gave stigma. For instance, recent studies have found that the number of male victims hugely increases if you ask the female partners if they've ever been violent. Plenty of studies referenced on wiki also find roughly equal numbers, but are largely ignored even when I saw them posted on here.

I’m talking about the experience of when discussing the shite women put up with we always have to tippy toe and we are reprimanded that NAMALT or the men suffer too.Well in the week a man received a whole life tariff for raping & murdering a woman I don’t want to get diverted by whatabootery