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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that the school nurse shouldn't have sent me this letter...

394 replies

emkana · 06/12/2007 21:33

which has a programme in it how to deal with dd2's "bedwetting" WTF? She doesn't do "bedwetting", she's only 4.4 and still in pull-ups, which I thought was widely accepted as quite normal?

OP posts:
moondog · 06/12/2007 22:33

I've also worked with scores of children with SN (slightly ddiffernet I know) who have been perfectly toilet trained in school,then go home for the holidays and come back having lost that skill.

One can't really blame the parents as a lot of them have a lot on their plates but it is such a shame and we all mourn a lost important skill.
A lot of these kids will be wearing (visible) nappies into their teens and adults which really has an effect on how they are seen by others.
Sad but true.

yurt1 · 06/12/2007 22:34

well the lollipop incontinence pants stuffed with the biodegradable pads will give you a dry bed but allow your child to feel the wetness. They're not cheap but sell well 2nd hand (I would say on ebay but can't sell 2nd hand there anymore).

PaulaYatesbiggestfan · 06/12/2007 22:34

i wonder what those figures were 50 years ago
with my older dc's the school nurse asked prior to school entry ' is dc dry day and night'

i noted with most recent child this was not asked

maybe more sociallly acceptable?

BahHunkerBug · 06/12/2007 22:34

I know it's different, MD. But it's not helpful to anybody to be so scathing about either "failing", is it?

BahHunkerBug · 06/12/2007 22:35

Yurt, nothing like a bit of consistency from HCPs, eh? And that was nothing like a bit of consistency from that HCP!

perpetualworrier · 06/12/2007 22:35

If letting them be wet worked in all cases, then my friend's boy would have been dry at night a year ago. Instead she has changed his bed every night for a year.

My DS1 was dry at night with no effort at all on my part. I forgot to put a nappy on one night, just after he was trained during the day. Bed was dry in the morning, so we never put one on him again.

If I had 2 like him, I might think it was easy too......DS2 I wonder if we'll ever get there, but I also know I could have far worse problems. Why is this so contentious? I do understand the landfil thing, but I hope you're whiter than white in all other environmental matters moondog.

moondog · 06/12/2007 22:35

I don't think so Miggins.
My dd (who has significant comm. issues) was dry day and night well before the age of 2!!

yurt1 · 06/12/2007 22:36

oh moondog you know how children do different things in different places. Perhaps the skill hadn't generalised?

We trained ds1 at home originally. He was trained at home and at school for 3 years before he lost the skill of being dry at night overnight. A bit like one day he was eating 5 apples a day then the next day he refused and didn't eat another apple for 3 years. A bit at it must be the stressed old parents with too much on their plates. Very in fact.

moondog · 06/12/2007 22:37

Hunker, is it necessary to be so damned 'right on' the whole time.
It's not about 'failing' (such an emotive term).It's about people taking responsibility for some of the simple skills that their children fail to acquire.

BahHunkerBug · 06/12/2007 22:38

I'm not being "right on" ffs!

Oh, fuck it.

I'll be on the blog if anyone wants me.

tori32 · 06/12/2007 22:38

As a former bed wetter, there are lots of reasons for it, especially at the starting school age.
Watching TV to go to sleep is a very big factor as during the day the hormone vasopressin is released (stimulated by daylight). When children watch TV to sleep it confuses the body into thinking it is still daytime. The vasopressin stimulates the production of urine so therefore the bladder becomes too full to last all night.
Also, bullying is a major problem/ worrying about school. This is because when the child finally falls asleep he/she is exhausted and sleeps deeper, therefore not registering the urge to wee.
Drinking more in the mornings and less in the PM can help as well.
No drinks after 6pm so that the child has chance to produce urine and fully empty the bladder before bed is helpful.
I think you must remember that referrals at age 7/8 are leaving the maximum amount of time for a child to get dry, its not a standard to aim for dry by.
FWIW I was referred aged 5 to a neurologist who found nothing wrong, but what he and my parents didn't know was that I was being bullied at school until I was 11. BW stopped at age 12

mistletoemiggins · 06/12/2007 22:41

I have to say Moondog that always valued ur opinion but I dont see what Im doing wrong with DS
I could try wet bed for 2 weeks and hope it works but was led to believe that if the nappy/pull up is wet, they arent ready

god this is hard

tori32 · 06/12/2007 22:41

FWIW though I agree with moondog about the pullups, they offer no discomfort for the percentage of children who are too lazy to go to the toilet or potty (not all,just some). If you can rule that out then it will help to understand the reason for it.

jinglebells2shoessmells · 06/12/2007 22:42

sorry to op but i have to post in reply to Moondog.
What gives you the right to judge. You are a SALT not an incontinece advisor,
My dd has cp she is dry during the day but as part of her disability she controls situations. so some things are "school" some are "home" this led to a lot of problems getting her dry. (dry at home not school)
so do not dare to judge parents who are working bloody hard.
(sorry your post has made me bloody angry)

mistletoemiggins · 06/12/2007 22:42

actually tori32 DS is "bullied" at school but he doesnt seem that bothered by it - his friends are going home crying so I kinda thought it wasnt affecting him
maybe it is

Doodledootoo · 06/12/2007 22:44

Message withdrawn

JingleyJen · 06/12/2007 22:45

I am fascinated by this thread.. In DS's nursery class (aged 3-4) there are 23 children and there are no children who are still in nappies during the day and I know of none who wear nappies at night (good community only 2 Mums who we don't socialise with and I don't think they are hiding things)
From this thread it would suggest that there are lots of children who do still wear nappies at night.
I am NOT being critical of those with children still wearing pull ups but is it possible that some of the children that still wear pull ups could be dry at night with a week or so of lifting the child onto the loo at night?

tori32 · 06/12/2007 22:45

It possibly is affecting him on a more subconscious level. Even he probably wouldn't think it does if you ask him. My parents didn't realise because I never told them and the teachers didn't notice .

moondog · 06/12/2007 22:45

Jingle, I referred lower down to parents of children with SN which as I said is a completely different scenario.

I am studying for an MSc in Applied Behaviour Analysis which will lead to a professional qualification that is very highly thought of.
I am interested in the process of extinguishing unwanted behaviours and encouraging wanted behaviours.

Does that answer your question?

Neverenoughmistletoe · 06/12/2007 22:45

It is largely physiological-babies and small children lack the ability to concentrate urine that adults and older children have.
I disagree that it is a skill.
Our society has decided based on average ageds when it is appropriate to intervene-and it is no coincidence that 7 is about the age when chidren start to want to socialise with sleepovers and school overnight trips.

HuwEdwards · 06/12/2007 22:46

Ok, so both DDs were dry at night fairly early on - however I know of the parents of 2 (different) dcs whose kids slept so soundly, they would wake these kids in absolutely sodden beds.

So I do think this varies a lot - however as in all matters, yes, there may be some parents who can't be arsed.

Isn't that life??

southeastastra · 06/12/2007 22:46

well until 10 year olds wear nappies i don't think we should become too concerned

Doodledootoo · 06/12/2007 22:48

Message withdrawn

yurt1 · 06/12/2007 22:48

It can be about the right trigger as well 2shoes in many cases. So for years ds1 could 'copy' putting a toy tomato in a box in one room, but not another. Currently he can spell out 'dog' in one room of our house, but not another, and not at all at school. That's why when I have meetings with school I take video so they can see how he is at home, and what he is doing. I've observed him in school as well to see the differences.

Likewise I have no idea why he stopped eating apples for 3 years (or why he suddenly started again). It was nothing either we or school did.It was related to him (and probably a sensory experience- which incidentally is the conclusion I came to about the bedwetting- he liked it- he liked the feel of it).

"poor overworked parents with lots on their plates-but who nevertheless contribute to their children's discomfort' is missing so many issues its really quite frightening.
The children I know in daytime nappies really have so many other issues going on- it is not a big thing. Nor does it affect how others see them in the great scheme of things. How many people realise Roz Blackburn wears nappies without her telling you?

moondog · 06/12/2007 22:49

Southie,Pampers et al would love that.
I would put money on the fact that even now some twat in silly glasses is working out a marketing campaign for Mary Kate and Ashley pee pee boy shorts.