to think that the school nurse shouldn't have sent me this letter...

[emkana]

which has a programme in it how to deal with dd2's "bedwetting" WTF? She doesn't do "bedwetting", she's only 4.4 and still in pull-ups, which I thought was widely accepted as quite normal?

lol @ Doodle!

Doodle,it made perfect sense though!

You can get very good bed protectors whihc might be an alternative option. My nephew takes such strong anti-epilesy drugs he really doesn't wake up at all at night (except for fitting) and that's what my sister mostly uses. He doesn't have an accident every night, but it's not unusual, and as he is eighteen that's quite a lot of pee! I don't know if they are available to those not in special needs services though. I don't think it's a big deal (except to the environment and your pocket) to be wearing night time pull-ups at five, but neither do I think it's normal, and I do wonder that they are now so easily available, they can't really only be bought for children with bladder problems because that just wouldn't be a big enough market. For those really struggling there is advice and guidance out there for example looking at the vaguely official and not merchandising supported ones: familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/children/parents/toilet/366.htmland or www.kidshealth.org/kid/health_problems/bladder/enuresis.html www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/enuresis.htm has been said most children will grow out of it, but if it's a big problem, and certainly for regular acciddent during the day I would try for medical advice if you can. There could be reasons (fixable or not) for the problem, especially if it's only just started (also lots of gadgets which perhaps suggests the market is bigger than I imagined)

jingleyjen as a former sufferer I am well aware that parents do their utmost to conceal bedwetting for several reasons.

1. Because people judge them as failing.

2.to spare the child from teasing and embarrassment about it.

1. Because although it is discussed parents and children need to feel like they fit the normal patterns.

So I say reserve judgement on your group of mothers. What they tell you and the truth may well be very different.

ABA did fuck all for ds1's bedwetting (because as I eventually guessed- the bedwetting itself was the reinforcer). Rather than mum not trying hard enough as she had too much on.

Well my 6 year old dd1 still wets at night, not every night mind, but at least twice a week. She hasn't been in any form of nappy for over 2 years.

Some kids wet, not because they are lazy and have nappies to piss into.

You need to have a lot of experience of night training to enable you NOT to jump to conclusions about easy ways to night train a child.
Had I merely gone on the first 2 kids then I would have said do this and do that. Dd1's younger sister is dry at night too.
There aren't any magic answers, life aint that simple.

Moondog some of what you think is alright, but only for some children.

Yurt that inability to generalise a behaviour is very common and at the crux of so many difficulties acquiring new skills.

This was the post i was talking about

By moondog on Thu 06-Dec-07 22:33:59
I've also worked with scores of children with SN (slightly ddiffernet I know) who have been perfectly toilet trained in school,then go home for the holidays and come back having lost that skill.

One can't really blame the parents as a lot of them have a lot on their plates but it is such a shame and we all mourn a lost important skill.
A lot of these kids will be wearing (visible) nappies into their teens and adults which really has an effect on how they are seen by others.
Sad but true.

I know moondog. Which is why I said earlier that maybe kids came back from holidays having lost training skills because they hadn't generalised them.

Yes Yurt,can imagine that may be the case sometimes (ie wet bed being a reinforcer.)
I remember the not altogether unpleasant feeling of lying in my own wee as a child.Mind you,we lived in the Tropics which helped...

Sorry Yurt,hadn't seen that post.

Interesting as in many ways, a learning disability can (sometimes) boil down to
a.) difficulty with imitation
b.) difficulty with generalising

Totally understand tori within the group (at school) we have talked at length about lifting in the night we have known each other since before potty training (small village!) If there is one Mum then I get it but I can't imagine there are lots of Mums saying it?

Not helpful to the OP, but surely "I remember the not altogether unpleasant feeling of lying in my own wee as a child.Mind you,we lived in the Tropics which helped... "

has to be quote of the week

I also remember having to scrub my own mattress the day after!!
(I wet the bed occasionally intil the age of 10.)

well then can't you see that a skill might be lost overnight because a child suddenly (perhaps accidentally) discovers a new sensation that they like. It makes me very cross that that might be put down to a parent being a bit dopey and having too much on their plate.

I have 3 children, 1 with severe learning difficulties and severe autism, I'm doing a full time PhD, I run a part time home programme for ds1. Any skills that ds1's loses (and he does- he constantly loses skills as he gains others) are not to do with having a lot on my plate, or being a bit incapable and however much a SALT might mourn a loss of skill I mourn it a damn site more.

Very cross now.

We all produce a hormone that concentrates our urine at night. Babies don't make it, which is why they wee at night. Some individuals start to produce it later than others, which is why some children wet the bed far longer than others.

Production of the hormone tails off in old age, which is why some old people wet the bed at night.

A synthetic version of the hormone is available - it's called 'Desmopressin' and is administered last thing at night via a nasal spray.

Most people I know who get into the habit of 'lifting' their child for a wee late at night find that it makes no difference to the age at which the child is eventually dry.

Of course I can Yurt.
If a child loses a skill I would argue that those paid to teach him have failed him as they should have factored in issues such as generality.
Believe me,ass someone who has worked exclusively in the field of LD for 10 years.

I am well aware of the very difficult circumstances in which families live.
I endeavoured to make it clear that I was not including those in my view that some people could easily and effortlessly train a child to acquire a new skill.

It is a shame if a child is in nappies who could be in ordinary underwaer.Is that such a controversial thing to say?

I remember the scrubbing the mattress.
A buzzer attached to a metal mat under a towel which went off and frightened me to death so I weed more
Star charts
Trips to hospital
Dye tests to check kidneys worked ok.
Lifting at night.
Nothing worked because the cause was psychological.

I'm shocked and horrified by your posts on this thread, Moondog. You've called people who do things differently from you are 'you lot', accused us of being 'lazy' and not bothering to teach our children essential skills.

And then to make it even worse you had a pop at parents of SN kids...

Honestly, you are making Gina Ford look laid back. Not everyone has to obey your orders, you know. Yours is not the only way of looking at the world.

You sound like one of those people who rants about 'in my day babies were all trained by the time they were a year, we just put them on the potty, modern parents are just too lazy with those disposables'.

Moondog because of your comments I did an ebay search on Nappy Pants, having freecycled all mine, and came up with something alarming.

This.

After 3 years ds1 learned to imitate, it helps teaching skills but it doesn't solve everything. His biggest problem is actually inhibition (lack of) rather than initiation. All executive function skills anyway.

Honestly moondog you have left me with steam coming out of my ears. You must realise that first post about SNs was way too simplistic?

Oh enjoy your feelings of moral outrage Edam.
Glad I gave you something to get heated about.

Totally agree with fortyplus, we started lifting DD1 when she was 3yo, made absolutely no difference, still wetted til nearly 4. DD2 was dry at about 20 months, she is now 27months & doesn't like wearing nappy at night but still feel she is too little. Her nappy is still wet in morning. Am I lazy and letting her down in some horrific way??

fortyplus that's very interesting. The hormone thing. I didn't know that. It should be taught to all new mums so we keep the pressure off ourselves and our toddlers.

Explain this though: My ds was dry for about 9 months at around 3, then he started weeing at night again and that was two years ago.

moondog I don't think edam is alone in getting "heated" about your comments.