To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

In the nicest way OP. Just because you are a doctor doesn't mean all 3 kids will have high jobs like that.

I mean are all 3 kids so bright? Honestly you either have it or you don't sometimes. Give yourself a break if your a junior Dr I can see why you don't have much spare time and I agree with you your salary won't stretch to fund private school 3 ways

Did your DD have tuition to support her to dot the 11+.

They do not cover the skills needed to sit the exams at state schools. If she was not tutored or supported to look at the exam format, she will have struggled as it will be totally new to her.

I live in a grammar school area. Parrots who want and are considering grammar school start tuition in school years 3 / 4. By the time they sit the exams they are confident with the process and can answer the questions accurately and with speed.

The discussion I have had with the headteacher leads me to believe this is a nationwide issue, due to funding issues.

Firstly schools vary enormously. I'm an advisory teacher and go to a lot of schools. The use of budget is so different from school to school.

Secondly I'd be surprised if a junior Dr could afford private school fees without a high earning partner.

Thirdly the school stuff doesn't add up. If aged 7 DD was testing 5 years ahead how come she didn't progress at all in 3 years?

I don't know what kind of test the school did to then inform you she was testing so far ahead. Schools don't tend to do tests that come up with that result, unless you mean the assessed her individually in subjects and that's what they found. If so then there's something very strange about her testing at a year 8 level in year 3 and not even maintaining that. I think I would be looking at what is going on. Has she had some kind of trauma?

Seriously if you do think it's because the school is so bad, firstly complain with facts to governors and report to Ofsted and the local authority and let them deal with it. Then move the children. Primary schools vary enormously. Get local recommendations for a good school.

However I still think something doesn't add up and something else is going on here.

Hi OP,

I’m sorry to read your post, and that you feel the way you do. “Utterly let down” is a very strong term.

As a junior doctor I imagine you work long and demanding hours, and so won’t want too much of the responsibility of educating your children resting on your shoulders on too of your ongoing training and career.

First of all: by no means is it your fault. It’s up to the state to provide good education, to level up, to not preside over a society where private schools are relatively much more expensive than they used to be, and state education not as good as it used to be. It’s not your fault so many of us are less affluent than our parents, despite do many more of us educated to degree level, etc.

If others have pointed out, if you feel the way you do, you have to change what you can. Move catchment; challenge school leadership; employ tutors. Could a bank give you a loan based on future earnings?

You are already setting your DC a great example by being well-educated yourself, and working in a high-skilled and socially valuable role. Do not despair. 💐

PS - as someone who has probably been very much on the front line of what we’ve gone through in the past 18 months: thank you to you and all the NHS.

I am not sure I believe this is true . .. if it is I apologise.
I am a doctor too and most doctors are well aware of the social determinants of educational and health outcomes.
I went to what is a very poor school but I have still done ok.
I still believe that determination and grit and stick -ability are more important than natural ability.
If your child has struggled through 11 plus maybe they are not as academically able or maybe they are a late bloomer.
Encourage your kids to read, keep them away from screens as much as possible, eat with them, watch current affairs, ask them about their opinions. Encourage them to do what they are passionate about. Let them know that there school is not an excuse to perform badly.
Love them for who they are and not what you want them to be.

Education is important, but there are more ways than private school

Being a doctor, you could work and live in the catchment of a good secondary comp

We are not able to afford private, and moved to an area with decent state schools… it meant DH had to commute further, I had to find a new job etc

It’s worth it if you feel so strongly about education

There are honestly very very good non-selective state schools out there (but you have to live in the catchment)

I don’t think this sounds very genuine. Most state schools are pretty good these days, the difference with the private sector isn’t as vast as you might think, and most middle class kids are rebounding well after all the lockdowns. Something is a bit off here.

I think you need to have a chat about work ethic.

Especially if they are disrupting the rest of the class.

Hard-working children will work hard pretty much anywhere. One of my DC is in a very difficult class with lots of behaviour issues. He still keeps his head down and gets on with his work and always gets an excellent for effort. My other DC isn't as hard working, although not disruptive and always gets good for effort and we talk to them both about work ethic. Not blame the school. There are also knock on repercussions if they don't get good or excellent for their effort marks. I don't care about their academic performance - having a strong work ethic is what gets you through life.

Personally, I think you're hung up on the wrong aspect op. Focus on the work ethic and the rest will fall in place regardless of what the school is like.

I'm confused - if your eldest is "coasting" because the offered work is boring to her as she's very bright, presumably she should be able to ace the offered work in her tests? Or do you mean that being the top of her school is still below where you think she could be grades wise?

It sounds like a lot of the issue here is motivation- which might be more easily overcome by things like smaller class sizes, but ultimately comes from the child. Certainly my motivation to do well came from my parents to a large degree!

[quote Changechangychange]@clary I assume she means net pay not gross, and she may not be full time.

Junior doctors are usually paid about the same as band 6s (SHOs), and band 7s (registrars).[/quote]
I meant net as well fwiw. I am sure even a junior doctor earns more than £25k gross (which is about £20k net). She might be part time it's true.

The thing is that it sounds like you have been absolving your children of any real independent effort. If they have picked up ok the attitude that you have, which seems to be that there is no wonder they are not achieving because of the school, then it is unsurprising that they are coasting.

Millions of children excel at state school - perhaps start to consider why that might be, rather than assuming your children are doomed.

Has your eldest taken the 11+ already? If not, you can get papers online for free and there are a lot of self help books you can get to help her practice for it. Can't you spend a few hours a week helping her prepare for the 11+? You have a lot of excuses but you haven't taken any responsibility for your children's education. Asking an already stretched school to provide extra support isn't going to happen. This is where you step in and support your children. Make the time

@Puffalicious

Reading this thread there is so much judgement of schools. Schools have teachers that are trained to the same level: there is no difference on how well qualified a teacher is no matter where they teach: they all need a PGCE!

This isn't true, they only need a PGCE to teach in a state school. Independent schools can, and do, hire people without teaching qualifications to teach their children.

If your eldest daughter is bright, she might get into a grammar school at 12+ or 13+. However, you would need to engage tutoring opportunities for her. Group tuition at a centre often works better than one-to-one, as the competitive atmosphere tends to spur on the learners, and there will be kids there who are practicing test papers at home every day, and being very, very serious about succeeding - which sets the bar high. Kids can pick up from one another how to approach questions.

I am not a fan of 11+, but it seems churlish to avoid offering helpful suggestions to people who do like grammar schools. You won't get the problem of tutors dropping out and leaving you in the lurch, if you use group tuition, and these centres organise mocks.

11+ is designed to select the most academic, so theoretically, a very able pupil who has done next to no preparation should do well. However, knowing the format of the questions helps, and I think you have to give that advantage to your child, when you are putting them forward for the exam.

Chatting about current affairs at home and using language in different contexts ought to be a big help to your kids. I'm sure if you take them to museums and art galleries, etc, you are helping to shape their general knowledge and understanding of the world.

I don't think I would allow my child to attend a secondary school that I wasn't enthusiastic about. I would move house to find a better solution.

@ANameChangeAgain

Not many of us can afford private, but how well they do at school is down to them and to you. You have to put in the work yourself. You have to help with homework, teach them how to research topics they aren't understanding at school and most of all motivate so that they aren't coasting. Coasting can happen at private schools just it can in state, its what goes on at home that alters their attitude at school. For example, I used to volunteer read with children at our local primary, and the clever kids all had parents marking home reading in their record books. Many of the children needing support or struggling with basics all had parents who didn't bother reading with them at home. It wasn't about money, it was about time.

Time, which not all parents have. There is a correlation with children whose parents mark reading records and those who perform. There will also be a very strong correlation between kids who read at home and those whose parents who are educated, who are part of a dual parent family, who can afford for one person to work part time or not at all.

School can't make up for home in all ways, but I'm tired of people in this country giving it a pass because parents are meant to fill all the gaps, when childcare is also among the most expensive in the world and housing also. People here do need to work, many parents don't have the education themselves, and assuming parents can do it all just condemns a huge percentage of less privileged children to low results.

Society has let your children down by creating a situation whereby some people can buy a better education (and therefore better life chances) for their children. You're just doing the best you can within those parameters.

If at 7 your daughter was testing at the level of a 12 or 13 year old and now she isn’t able to pass the first round of testing for grammar school then it sounds like rather than just not improving she has gone down?! This doesn’t really make sense!
My youngest children go to an excellent state primary where every year a number of children get into the super selective grammar school and highly selective private secondary schools.
How does your children’s primary compare to other schools nationally? What percentage of children are achieving at a higher standard in year 6? What is the average year 6 sat score for maths and for reading?
We couldn’t afford private for primary so we chose to like in an area with excellent state schools.
If the local secondary is as dire as you are describing no way would I send my children there. Have you researched the best state schools? I would look at moving into the catchment of one of these.

I get that private fees are high these days but you do sound passive in all this.

We used state and it was fine for 11 plus entry and dc did well, only a few marking thins externally - which did happen via zoom when lockdown occurred. More to just let him talk to someone good at maths (graduate)

They had one small club for extra maths at school but I don’t know about other stuff.

He was keen to learn though did your dd come across like this?

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. Sounds like you are blaming the school for not supporting your DD to pass her second round (so presumably we're talking very sought after super-selective grammar here) 11+ exam. I think it's well known that state schools don't prep for the 11+ exams, so you would be expected to provide that support or pay for someone to help?

If you are on a doctor's salary, you will be well enough paid to enrich your DC's state education and pay for tutors if required.

Most children in the country (including a lot of professionals' DC) are educated in the state system. And even from middling state schools, bright, motivated children can do very well.

You aren't getting much sympathy here, and I'm not surprised. The vast majority of the kids in this country go to state school. There are bright kids all over the world with no access to education at all.

If you can't afford private school then stop thinking about it. Your DD might have been suitable for a scholarship perhaps but now you have to work with the hand you have been dealt. Are your kids happy? Are they doing any extra curricular activities that they really enjoy? Are you able to take them to events and on holidays that stretch and inspire them? Take responsibility for the overall welfare of your children and unless you want to do something about it (move house, change schools, join the PTA, raise funds, be a volunteer) you'll have to learn to live with the choices you have made.

I would look into doing some private work at weekends - if GPs can do this - to bring in some more money - to give you further options.

If you really want your daughter to go to grammar school, and she wants to and is prepared to work, your other option, and one that is most likely to succeed, is to go on one of these tutoring websites, such as Tutor Fair, and hire a tutor who charges £100 per hour, but pledges and has a track record of achieving stunning results. (I presume that a doctor's salary is comfortable enough for this to be affordable.) This is an option if there is such a tutor working in your area, or you think that remote learning would work for your daughter.

I guess it's up to you to make sure that your children read every day.

I think you're being too negative and it's probably rubbing off on your children. My son went to a school that was considered poor, but all the children who went there but we're encouraged by their parents to have a positive attitude and to enjoy learning did well. All the children who's parents blamed the school and publicly went on about how rubbish it was, didn't.

Firstly if you are projecting this snobbish attitude to the school I am not surprised they are unwilling to engage with you.

Secondly, this is not a state b private issue. If it a fishing ofnan individual school. My dss went to local state primary, local state comp achieved all A* in everything without much work or external support.

Thirdly IF what you say is correct then why have you not flagged this higher, governing body, local LEA, posted? The school are legally required to differentiate work between higher and lower achievers.

You state your child is acting the clown at school, perhaps you need to address her behaviour which is more likely the cause of her failing than blaming the school

Is your children’s father on the scene?

If your eldest is exceptionally cognitively able then with some tutoring she should have little trouble with the 11+ as it is a test of aptitude. I mean this kindly but it’s possible that she’s not quite as academically bright as you thought. Children who are hothoused into highly selective schools (whether state or private) are in for a miserable time of struggling to keep up.

I get what you are saying OP. The school and their friends and classmates in the school make a big difference - if everyone is mucking about, parents uninterested you will probaby get poorer outcomes.
I would visit the other schools in the area and see what they seem like, eg go at break time, end of day - see if some are smaller, see if children are happy, see if they are messing about. Check their results.
There's only state round here - there are a couple I'd consider, others not so much.
Can you move areas completely?
Out of the cities house prices are less.
My DS went to a 'good' school' hard to get into catchment did v well, DS2 went there but not such a good fit, but did reasonably. DS3 completely different area friendly but non academic school eg no one liked french so none of them worked?? But did well enough in the end.
It definitely makes a difference. I did enough at school but like DS2 could have done much much better.