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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

1001 replies

hibbledibble · 26/09/2021 00:06

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

OP posts:
darkconfession · 26/09/2021 07:15

Sorry as a dr you can afford the lower end private schools , its not a small wage

I agree. Every doctor I know sends their kids to private school, though my experience of private school for my son was poor.

BadlyArrangedToasties · 26/09/2021 07:15

Can’t tutors provide support online? I know many who have used Zoom during the pandemic and even now so no one has to worry about risk of covid.

anonamouse1234 · 26/09/2021 07:15

I am not a Dr but my other half is (GP) and I suggest all those thinking Drs earn hundreds of thousands should put the Daily Mail down as the headlines are not reflective of reality. It's still more than the average in the UK for sure, and / but at the training levels (junior Dr) private school is not an option. Lots of schools push medicine as a prestigious degree to get into so they can stick it on their leavers' destinations website, but unless you go into plastic surgery or similar, you are not going to be able to put your kids through private school. The fee inflation has been extremely high.

However, I do earn enough to support our children in an amazing private school. I went to an average comp and I can tell you that the schooling my kids get is in a different universe from what I got. Is it worth it? Emphatically, it is. They have 14 per class, 1 teacher and 1 teaching assistant (this is prep / primary). From what my other half tells me about the (private) school they went to, the vast, vast majority go to the top of the RG universities, where at mine, only I did out of a class of 250.

At state school you succeed in spite of the school, with massive amounts of parental involvement. At private school this is just not the case. To all those on here who say that private school is not worth it, you either don't understand the alternative in the state system, or you really really need to shop around a bit more...

traumatisednoodle · 26/09/2021 07:16

Not many of us can afford private, but how well they do at school is down to them and to you.
You have to put in the work yourself. You have to help with homework, teach them how to research topics they aren't understanding at school and most of all motivate so that they aren't coasting. Coasting can happen at private schools just it can in state, its what goes on at home that alters their attitude at school.
For example, I used to volunteer read with children at our local primary, and the clever kids all had parents marking home reading in their record books. Many of the children needing support or struggling with basics all had parents who didn't bother reading with them at home. It wasn't about money, it was about time

This I was a junior doctor throughout my children's primary years. Yes it's tough but you do need to stretch them (reading is a non negiotiable in the early days, times tables in the car, timetables rock star. Are you a single parent as well ? I choose to train pt so that I could enrich the DCs experience for this very reason. I am assuming you are not FY1 or 2 so should be on 35-50 or so FT, even without out of hours supplements. We found this enough for a nice house and plenty of extra-curricular stuff. Whereabouts do you live ?

Toodlydoo · 26/09/2021 07:16

I went to grammar and wasn’t tutored just did papers at home (this was when schools were less competitive though). I don’t think you can blame the school for not getting her past her 11+. State schools don’t prep you for it, most of the people I went to school with were tutored privately. I also wouldn’t put too much on where she was when she entered primary school, my primary school teachers thought I was a lot cleverer than I actually am, children change immensely during this time, some kids begin to flourish later some peak early (definitely reached the pinnacle of my achievements as a 7yr old 😂).

The school she’s at may not be right for her but I think you need to have an honest look at a) her current ability and attainment b) specifically what you think the school is not doing. It’s not going to do her any favours either if you develop a mindset that any time she doesn’t succeed it’s because she didn’t go to private school. The best thing you can do is teach her to take ownership and responsibility and develop an internal locus of control.

TheSquashyHatOfMrGnosspelius · 26/09/2021 07:17

The biggest problem in schools is not so much the quality of the teachers or the facilities but the culture. If there is a strong culture of discipline and good behaviour, it frees kids up to learn. If it's a riot half the time, they have no chance.

I'm not thick but once in my secondary school, I had no chance of learning.

I get what you are saying OP. I think I could have done well if I had been privately educated.

Kitkat151 · 26/09/2021 07:17

IMO In the main, children do well ‘because of’ or ‘in spite of’ .....not All kids are high achievers

ohfook · 26/09/2021 07:18

I'm an absolute hypocrite because I am fully against private education and private healthcare. I think both are a basic human right and the best should be available to all not just the wealthiest.

That said in my younger days when I was less politically inclined I was a teacher in a few different private schools. The main differences were class sizes - on average 12 to a class, fundraising by parents and that they would get in genuine experts to teach the subjects that require specific skills or knowledge (music, pe, drama). And if children were struggling the parents would without fail pay for a tutor; usually one of the teachers at the school. The teachers were no more qualified and there was a much higher turnover of staff than any schools I've worked in since.

My friend (also a doctor) has managed to get her kind into a tiny one form entry state school in a very well off village. There's only 12 to a class and they benefit hugely from parental donations. In other words she's managed to get the private school experience for free. You've already said about looking in to a tutor but maybe also look at moving your dc out of an over-subscribed and underfunded school - although ironically by moving them out, you'll further reduce the schools' funding!

a8mint · 26/09/2021 07:21

Well lots of state school children do study medicine, and go to top universities, so i am not sure how you square that?

Chunkymenrock · 26/09/2021 07:21

@Puffalicious

Absolute nonsense. Education is a right not a privilege. Our state system is excellent. My older sons go to a very mixed, large comprehensive in Glasgow (we don't have grammars/ selective state schooling). My eldest received the school dux in August- the top grades- in all 5 subjects (A level equivalent all over 90%). He is applying for Oxford for 2022. His younger brother is also doing excellently. What more could a private school have given my boys? Please enlighten me.
That's great for you, but absolutely not the Op's experience. Not a helpful comment.
Whyarewehardofthinking · 26/09/2021 07:22

Sometimes I get very defensive as a teacher in state school, but you really are being ridiculous. My children are bright, my DD17 left with exception GCSEs despite going to a mediocre secondary. Her younger sister will do the same as they are bright and motivated to succeed. I went to a dog shit state school in a very rough area, went to a Russell Group uni and now have a very successful career.

One of my best friends works in a private school in York and we talk a out this a great deal. Her own kids do not go to her school, despite heavily reduced fees. Her students are a mix of bright not so bright and lazy students. They won't necessarily get a better education with smaller class sizes and facilties; my GCSE results are lower than hers but my A level are much better.

Intelligent motivated children will excel wherever they are. Motivation is something instilled well before I get them at secondary. I can help improve it, but the biggest influence is home.

mayblossominapril · 26/09/2021 07:23

You need t move. I was privately educated (it was cheaper years ago) and can’t afford it for my children. Where I live you either move house to a good or outstanding catchment or the mum drives the children to an out of catchment school. Obviously only parents who have flexible jobs can do this.
DS has just started reception and he’s in a class of 24. There isn’t a class of 30 in the school.
Research where you can get a job and where the schools are good. I live in a semi rural area and they are so short of applicants for junior doctors the hospitals are training nurses, physios, and paramedics to do non surgical junior doctor roles

shesellsseacats · 26/09/2021 07:23

Why on earth are you sending your child to the local school if it's terrible?

Not all state schools are the same.

Saying you can't afford a "better area" is a total cop out. The better state schools aren't all in better areas. I don't earn anywhere near a doctor's salary but we prioritised our children's education when deciding where to live.

Yes it sucks that the state system isn't as well-funded as the private system. But you can't change that.

You can change where you live. This is your responsibility and there are loads of areas where houses are affordable near good schools.

Decent 3 bed semis near the best school in this town start at around £250k. The posher ones start at around £370k.

If you want your child to have a decent education you need to do something about it, not set them up for failure and complain about the secondary before they've even started there.

If you say moving is impossible, you're not telling the truth to yourself or us. It IS possible, but you need to want to do it, and to be prepared to make sacrifices to your lifestyle for the kids.

MintJulia · 26/09/2021 07:23

Firstly, their life isn't over because they will go to a state school. Plenty of dcs do very well in state schools. BUT your approach seems all wrong to me.

'If I wanted to educate them myself, I would have home schooled' err...that sounds like you don't think you have to foster a love of learning at home.

They are still primary age so you can turn this around. Get disciplined. Put an hour aside every night despite your busy job, and sit with them while they do home work. Chat to them about it. Show you are interested. Work through their maths with them, make sure they understand it properly. Challenge them. Take them on a trip every weekend. You say you can afford a tutor, well take them to the local science centre instead, or book them a weekly hour's coding. Or an art class. Take them to museums or just to Waterstones. Buy them a book a week. Encourage them to read.
Once covid eases, take them on the odd weekend to France and get them using the language early. Expand their experiences.
When something sparks an interest, develop that interest. My DS got hooked on weather so I bought him a little weather station last xmas.

You are an educated woman, you know what to do !!

CheshireSplat · 26/09/2021 07:23

The pandemic can't have helped. Presumably, OP was working flat out and was tired and exhausted. my DC were in a key worker bubble - they weren't taught, they received childcare from TAs, as the teachers were teaching other classmates online.

OP, you haven't mentioned another parent here, but haven't said you are a single parent. Is their father not invested in this? What role is he playing?

sparklylightss · 26/09/2021 07:27

YABU, but the school doesn’t sound amazing - although I think it depends on what you were actually asking of the school.

In terms of your eldest, they should have been able to ensure there was an appropriate level of challenge for her in at least MOST core lessons. If you have a child in your class and you are genuinely not stretching them and allowing them to coast the entire time then you haven’t done a good job. My colleague has a child in their class who is working at year 7 level (we teach UKS2) so they ensure there is a decent level of challenge there in terms of extensions, not making the child sit through a maths input when they can do it already (starting the work early), etc. That’s the basics.

However, if you asked for something like an entirely different curriculum or extra work that would be marked by the teacher (it happens), I can see why they said no.

As for your other DD, the school again should be supporting her with differentiated work at the bare minimum if she is very behind. However, I can see why they would say funding is an issue if you asked for TA interventions, because in my school at least we have to choose the children who are the MOST in need across the year group and cram them into a timetable. As a result, there are children who would benefit from interventions who can’t get them because we don’t have the money for any more TAs.

If, as you said, the school said they were unable to offer any differentiation (which should be done in planning and teaching by the teacher and is not affected by funding), then they’re a shit school. Plenty of excellent state primaries, though. I teach in one and fucking hell, if I attempted to not differentiate for some of the kids in my class then SLT would have my head - and quite rightly!

Morgoth · 26/09/2021 07:27

@Nosquit

skyblue A vast majority of the discrepancy in private vs state school exam results really is due to socioeconomic factors! I work at a school that has a big divide in these and every year we split the results taking these in to account and the results across the school are very similar to the results you quoted. Those with poorer and less engaged families on average score lower than those with richer more engaged families. Those sending their children to private school are often more engaged in the education as they are paying for it, or at least very focussed on paying even more money to get those top grades. So tbh those statistics really mean nothing!! (Where I teach we are lucky that the more disadvantaged students don’t end up that far behind their peers as well have fantastic teachers, but there is still that gap.)
Exactly this. I thought this was obvious to everyone but there are some people who think the reason that so many more students get A’s at private school is because they are remarkably better than state schools. They’re confusing cause and correlation.

More students get A’s who come out of private schools because the intake of students who go to private schools is very different to those who go to state schools for the 3 main reasons of socioeconomic factors, parental input and the heritability element of intelligence. A student who goes to a private school is more likely to come from a background with money, parental input, parents who value education highly and talk about it in a positive light, parents who were most likely educated themselves, less anti-social behaviour at home, surrounded by peers who also value education etc. These kids would most likely get A’s in the state school system anyway.

If you actually did a social experiment and swapped around the intake of kids at private schools and state schools, I bet you would get the state school kids getting more A’s than the private school kids.

The biggest factors by far in a child’s academic success are parental input and placing a high value on education, socioeconomic factors and the heritability element of intelligence. Most students who attend private school will have parents who also excelled academically at school and so are in well paid jobs to be able to afford private school. A private school may get a child who would get a B in a state school an A but doubtful an E to an A.

A good example of this is children from Indian or Chinese families. The statistics show that Indian and Chinese students who go to state schools outperform every race (apart from their own) who attend private schools. They usually come from backgrounds and cultures were education is cherished and valued highly and there is a lots of support and drive to succeed academically. Culture at home and the values you give your child.

Parents of high achieving kids at state schools continue the learning at home or have raised kids to take autonomy for their own learning and know how much they need to work to achieve what they want. They are realistic. They don’t absolve responsibility of their child’s learning to solely the school. They know that state schools can only realistically cater to as much of the cohort in a normal distribution curve as they can. They don’t expect a private school education at a state school where their gifted child will be gloriously stretched and given attention. They know this is unrealistic. They don’t even have to have literal involvement - they just needed to have raised kids who value education and motivate themselves.

Coffeeonmytoffee · 26/09/2021 07:27

If they are learning very little to nothing at school then make a proper complaint or move them.
My dd who has dyslexia and was always in the lowest sets for everything just got almost all 9in her GCSE’s.
my best friends son just did a maths A level a year early and got an A
and is in line to go to Cambridge
Both of them are at comprehensive which are non selective.
I went to a very dodgy comp - and got 10 excellent GCSE'S.

With all the things available online there is no excuse to fail.
My DD couldn't cope with her science teachers style of teaching so she went and revised using online resources she did 130 hours!! She got A*
This is a child with real struggles.

You're making excuses for them. You're enabling them to fail.
Sorry but it's only them failing not the school - tell them you expect better!

northbacchus · 26/09/2021 07:27

How can she not pass the 11+ at yet be at age 12/13 academically? Hmm

Carrotsandbroccoli · 26/09/2021 07:27

We send our kids to private school. But it’s because of the overall experience that we chose it; I don’t think we thought for a moment that our kids were automatically going to do better academically at private school; school isn’t just about results!

Children spend a massive chunk of their lives at school, and, frankly, I want my kids in a pleasant environment with loads of extra-curricular options and small classes. It’s not true, as a PP said, that all areas have good state schools. I would shudder to send my kids to any of our local secondaries.

My children will always be those kids at private school whose parents aren’t rich and who don’t live in a massive house - but I’m ok with that because they have a lovely time at school. We live in a smaller house and have older cars than we could otherwise afford because we’ve prioritised their school experience. But it’s not about expecting certain results. That is a lot to do with ability.

thatsnotmyzoo · 26/09/2021 07:29

I get what you are saying and YANBU.

I actually think you’re experiencing some gaslighting on this thread from the contrary posters of mumsnet. Excellent state provision and they can’t see why you can’t afford private ha ha ha.

I was educated in a crap comprehensive and let me tell you it wasn’t excellent, it was dire. The whole culture of state is rotten in my opinion; learning is ‘uncool’ and there’s no joy in it. Kids who can’t behave are celebrated for turning up with a pen. Kids who want to learn are left hanging while teachers pick up the pieces of social issues and crap parenting. There are no resources to help any kids affected by these problems so they’re shunted through school, and spat out into the community. There’s no thought of helping kids achieve more because once they’ve hit the schools target baseline then who cares.

I did ok despite of my education rather than because of it, purely because I hated it so much that I was motivated to make a point of doing well. I really wish I’d have been able to enjoy learning and that I’d have had some encouragement.

Get and retain a tutor and look to move to an area with better provision if possible.

MarshaBradyo · 26/09/2021 07:30

Do state primaries do that badly?

We didn’t use one that particularly attracted dc as moved in term and one everyone goes for was full.

It was fine, better than that dc did very well at next stage.

I can see that culture in secondary can be counter academic - but primary?

AnyOldPrion · 26/09/2021 07:31

I think there’s an extent to which OP is experiencing a modern incarnation of “clogs to clogs in three generations”. It’s very common at present due to a number of societal upheavals.

Our parents generation grew up in the post-war era. There were fewer men, competing for more jobs, so wages were higher and house prices were lower. There were moves in society towards a welfare state, which benefited the poor more than the rich and removed some of the more extreme effects of inequality. One way or another, for our generation, there was a lot more social mobility than there had been before that.

I didn’t go to private school, but had a good stable upbringing (with a mother who could afford to stay at home and run the house) and went into a profession that my father might have dreamed about entering, but almost certainly wouldn’t have achieved. I once asked my mother why dad hadn’t made any attempt to go into my line of work and she answered that it wouldn’t even have been considered a possibility “for people like us”.

I married a man, whose parents had been similarly mobile, from very working class beginnings to very comfortably-off middle class. He did go to a private school.

Because house prices had risen so far by the time we had children, we couldn’t afford private school in the early days. Our children went to a good school initially, but then a much worse one later, where they started to fail. Because we both had to work, I wasn’t there to support them, as my mother had been.

So rather than having children who achieved at school, as I had done, I have children who have done moderately well. And as we all know, a moderately good degree in the UK doesn’t really shift you far up the career ladder.

I think the private school is a red herring. I have sympathy, OP. I had assumed my children would have the same path and opportunities as I did, and unfortunately that’s not looking likely. I have also wondered whether I have failed my children, but I am gradually moving towards the opinion that it’s largely society that has done that. We are moving back into a situation where there are a super-rich elite, and where those at the other end of the scale are far more likely to have insecure jobs and fewer rights than we would have had, even if we hadn’t achieved so well at school.

Those in my once-stable and well respected profession are now experiencing astonishing levels of stress and there is much discussion over whether the future is going to be tenable at all, in its current form.

This is a time of massive social upheaval. I hope that at some point things will change, but in the meantime, I think we have to support our children as best we can, and though you feel you have failed them, OP, you’re probably in a better position than many to do that.

Don’t beat yourself up. You can only do the best you can, so if you’ve done that, then what is happening at the moment is not your fault. There are some on this thread whose children performed as expected, so they perhaps don’t see what’s happening as clearly, but there are a whole generation of young people going out into a world that is much less stable and more difficult to navigate than it was when we left school. Back then, leaving school with sub-par grades could still lead to a stable and meaningful job, which in our parents time would have given opportunities to end up comfortably off. We can only hope that the pendulum will start to swing back at some point, but it might take a major upheaval on the scale of the war for it to begin.

lovelyupnorth · 26/09/2021 07:33

Maybe a bit of parental responsibility wouldn’t go amiss

My DDs didn’t miss out or under achieve going through the state system. Couldn’t be happier with it. I went to a private school wasn’t anywhere near as good as my kids school academically. Sport and out of school it was fantastic.

Don’t regret for one second our choices both dds at good universities studying what they want. But would be happy if they where working or doing apprenticeships.

Stop blaming others and parent.

UsedUpUsername · 26/09/2021 07:34

I think you have to make the best of what’s available... no use wringing hands over a ‘terrible’ school. Your kids will learn plenty there... how to mix with people from different backgrounds is extremely valuable

A quick look at the demographics of private schools tells me that this isn’t valued by society at all ….

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