To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

There are things you can do now to make a difference. Move to a better area out of London next to the best state secondary school you can afford. Move your job and rent if you have to. Reduce your hours and go part-time if need be to support them after school catching up. if you can’t afford to reduce your hours take a job that it’s affordable. Private school children’s days are long inc sports, prep and extra curricular. Secondary school day doesn’t finish to 9/10pm. Your kids will have some energy to do extra tutoring they are just not used to it and might have to build up stamina.

Also…it’s common for state schools to refuse to test or play down an SEN diagnosis. Pay privately and get it done your self ASAP.

I surprised that on a doctors salary you can't afford some sort of tutoring at least. Are all private schools really beyond a doctors salary? Have you checked? Even at private schools it is quite normal to have additional tutoring outside of school these days eg for 11+ if that's applicable to your area.

It's such a difficult one, this. I think it totally depends where you live. In my entire borough I do not think I could have found one state school with what I would have viewed as good enough educational standards. But I was not able to pay privately at the time even had I found a private place that was up to scratch. The one local private for boys became part of a very long running sex scandal just as my first son went to grammar way out of borough, so in retrospect I was pleased we didn't have the finance. But now they have both left the school system, I think the main thing I would pass on to any parent thinking about education is, look what's available around you for the whole school career, research it fully and if you don't like it, then move. And what is important in a school is actually the extracurricular activities, the characters of the teachers, and of course the cohort. Do you want your kids being friends with the kids in a particular school(s)? Then send them there. Do you not? Then don't. The rest of their education you can provide from home, seriously. With both mine I taught them for their entire primary curriculum and I also have a high hours professional job like you. So it is possible, but I admit I had to go part time. I just did it because I had to, otherwise they would have come out of primary with a really low skill base.
I do laugh when people say all our state school education in Britain is great. It's not. It used to be. I'm not boosting private here but I think London primaries really have low standards. Mind you I've thought that ever since I arrived here from Wales in the 60s! lol.

@Pr1mr0se

I surprised that on a doctors salary you can't afford some sort of tutoring at least. Are all private schools really beyond a doctors salary? Have you checked? Even at private schools it is quite normal to have additional tutoring outside of school these days eg for 11+ if that's applicable to your area.

Secondary private is 20-40k plus extras

There have been 30 pupils to a class since the 90s so that’s hardly anything earth shattering.

Sounds like you need to spend more time engaging with your kids and their school positively if you want them to enjoy or be interested in learning. If the only point of education if being able to test well then I can see why your kids would rather coast.

Grades are essentially pointless for anything except getting into uni. And a degree is essentially useless unless they are going to follow you into medicine. Learning to interact with people from ‘terrible state schools’ is a much more valuable skill.

Teaching is a noble profession and I have a lot of respect for all the people I know who teach. The teachers at your school are probably making sure half the kids get fed too

I went to a rough comprehensive school and my parents weren’t really interested in my academic achievements. I just had to behave and not get into trouble. I left school with 5 O levels. I was also a Girl Guide, could erect a tent, map read and do first aid. I volunteered with disabled children and ran a holiday play scheme. I played an instrument and was in a band. I didn’t do well at school but I had a lot of common sense and life experience. I now have a successful career. I don’t think that being mollycoddled through private school or hothoused makes people successful.

Yabu as this is about academic achievement, which can be supplemented anywhere, any time. The benefits of private school are the contacts and the attitude it gives you.

It doesn't sound like you've let your children down, OP.

You sounds like a caring, involved parent who wants the best for them, and that's all been made so much harder by the pandemic and associated effects.

Passing the 11+ is so much about the preparation/tutoring. You said yourself that you struggled to find suitable tutors. It's a crap system.

Hopefully, being in London, you'll have a few possible schools to choose from for secondary.

At least you get properly qualified teachers at state. In independent teachers do not have to be trained or qualified: they just have to know the right people or be in the right place at the right time. This can cause serious issues with the teaching of classes, as you can imagine.

I live in a location where the schools have a poor reputation.
When the stats are released for percentages going to 3rd level, the local schools fall far behind.
Sadly bright pupils adjust to their peer group and if the focus is not on studying, it will be harder for them to study.
The only solution is to move to a catchment with a good school but of course that is easier said than done with house prices. Could you even rent OP so they could transfer to a better school?

Do you earn little enough to be considered for a bursary/scholarship at a private school, if private is so important to you? I don't think you've mentioned whether you've got another wage earner in the household, but if you're on a single income as a junior doctor then you may well qualify for some means-tested support at a lot of private schools. Your daughter wouldn't get into a very prestigious one, based on what you say about her academic performance at the moment, but you could aim for a not too academic local private, if that's what really matters to you. You would have to think about it longterm, as the support would be taken away once your financial situation improved sufficiently with promotion, but it may be worth considering if you're really convinced that private would be better.

You certainly haven't failed your children. The school should have provided appropriate work for your older daughter - whilst the state system doesn't permit children to work above year group, they should offer greater depth learning. They should also be providing appropriate catch up for your younger daughter.

London is phenomenally expensive to live but it does have some of the best state school's - if moving out of London is not possible, you certainly should be looking to move to a different school.

The 11 plus is super competitive - particularly so in London. We are in Kent, competition for places in the North Kent Grammar's is particularly fierce.

I assume your eldest moves to secondary next year. Are there no alternative non selective schools available other than the one you mentioned? It is possible to get a place at a grammar at a later date - this is subject to there being a place and passing an entrance test. In your position I would look to do this and sign up to online tutoring (covid wont effect that). Another alternative would be to explore scholarships - assesments tend to be January and any award may be topped up with bursarys (these are assessed based on income / outgoings).

You havent mentioned the age of your younger daughter but moving schools and a tutor could be the solution.

I totally sympathise and do know how you feel - we moved our three children from state primary to independent school for the reasons you describe - the one size fits all approach to education didnt suit them either!

My eldest had an additional educational need that wasn't and couldnt be addressed unless she fell below expectation - she was bright enough to continue to meet expectations despite her difficulties and we subsequently chose to move her.

My middle child followed a year later - he is academic and sporty - like your daughter he wasn't being stretched sufficiently due to lack of funding although he did get one hour of maths and one hour of English each week in a small group (gifted and talented). We entered him for a scholarship assesment, thankfully he was awarded an all rounder scholarship.

My youngest, like your's is behind having missed so much of year R and 1 from school closures. We had intended for her to move in KS2 but moved her early given the missed schooling.

Good luck

Personally, I think 11+ is hard. Just the vocabulary candidates are supposed to know to get through the English paper is testing. I know it, but not surprised a lot of kids don't..

I'm lucky if I can do all the NVR on a paper. I can't do those dice ones at all, and my brain just hurts from looking at those lines and squiggles.

Secondary schools use Year 6 SATs to predict GCSE results and many go on making predictions on the back of tests taken in Year 7. It is as if schools are thinking of streams and predetermined results, based on intelligence. Many of the intelligence tests used do, in fact, accurately predict and foreshadow achievement at GCSE.
I would say that an 11 plus paper is possibly as hard or harder than what used to be the Foundation Level GCSE paper for English Language and Maths before Michael Gove reformed the GCSEs in 2013.

I think you have to be a student who will achieve Grade 8s and 9s, in due course, to be able to be selected for Grammar School in areas where competition is very fierce.

I take the point that a school may not have sufficient stimulus and challenge for a gifted and talented students. Little research projects could be set for homework and higher level thinking questions tacked on to every learning topic. However, I disagree that a school has failed if it can't get bright children to succeed with 11+. I think masses of intensive tutoring is needed from Year 4 onwards to, for want of a better word, guarantee success. And only those high-flying tutors, on top of their game, can really be relied on to be that good and clued up on levels.

You are right - public schools are often rubbish and unsupportive, especially if you don’t have time to spend extra couple of hours working with your child every day.
The gap between public and private schools is terrifying. We have been there. I sent my older boy to a public school and at the beginning of year 2 I noticed that he’s learning next to nothing, his writing is atrocious and he’s left to himself most of the time.
We had a trial day at a private school and the message from the headteacher is that my son is already nearly 1 year behind!
It was a big shock. I worked really hard for 5 months trying to improve his reading level, spelling, writing and maths!
He just made it as one of the worst students in his appropriate level to join.
We didn’t make same mistake with my younger son - straight from local preschool to same private school from year 1.
We moved areas since and my older son now started private secondary- doing really great.
The school costs an arm and a leg and will probably leave us in proper debt by the time both kids finish secondary, we can’t afford new car or expensive holidays but it’s worth every penny so far.
We are in South East region, expensive area but I don’t think as bad as London.
Many people relocate right here from London though and just commute/spend week days in London to save on cost of family living and school fees.
There’s also another private school with flexible part time boarding - ideal if you need a heavy childcare.
You pay fees for brilliant school and don’t have to worry about wraparound care - win win

@Pr1mr0se

I surprised that on a doctors salary you can't afford some sort of tutoring at least. Are all private schools really beyond a doctors salary? Have you checked? Even at private schools it is quite normal to have additional tutoring outside of school these days eg for 11+ if that's applicable to your area.

Beyond a junior doctor's salary. Once qualified and with a partner earning too it becomes the norm (among doctors I know). But OP is a junior doctor and hasn't mentioned an earning partner. One of her problems may be that among her colleagues who may be fully qualified and with other halves earning it is the norm. That is my experience in any case.

No, don't berate yourself. There are many excellent State schools. My 3 children had State education and all went to top Universities and achieved great Degrees, even Masters. Choose a good State school and nurture them through. It helps them to meet and work with a wide range of people, ethnically and socially. My children now all lead teams of people through their personality and people skills - not because they consider themselves entitled to issue orders - and their State education helped them achieve this.

As a teacher, it hurts me to read threads like this! Teachers work extremely long hours and I can assure you that your children were challenged well within their capabilities! If you felt that strongly about their abilities, then there is more than one 'state' school to send them to! Blaming the 'state' system is quite frankly awful! If you want to blame anyone, then look at government funding.....not the school itself!!

Anyway you only have to look at the percentage of people who think YABU, in which case, I hope you realise what an entitled a defamatory thread this is to teachers up and down the country op!!

My dad failed the 11+.. He got a phd in biochemistry and taught in a top private school for 30 years!

If your children perform badly in a state secondary but you think they would be high-flyers in a private school, then it is absolutely appalling that so many top university places and jobs go to people with a private school education, when clearly state-educated children achieving similar results are head and shoulders above their privately educated peers in terms of the intellect, independence, dedication and ambition they needed to gain their results.

But he also taught in comps. My dd at the local comp has a Doctor of History to teach her..

If your children are bright you could apply for a bursery for a private school.

I totally get it OP. What I think is disgusting is how much quality of teaching and attainment varies from school to school. Not helped by things like English as second (or complete lack of) language, little disruptive sh*ts in the classroom with zero consequences, teachers who work their way up to be bullying/crap head teachers etc etc.

I’d say go down the tutor route if you have no choice with the school you get

@hibbledibble How DARE you?!?!?!

My friend skived school from about 13 onwards due to horrific abuse at school. She got a 2:1 for her 1st degree and a 1st for her 2nd degree.