To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

@Theendoftheworldisnigh

I'd do wonder how much money is being spent on other things. Eg a house that is more expensive than necessary. Holidays that are more expensive than necessary. Doctors do have a reputation for being entitled, which has been demonstrated on this thread.

It feels like there’s a lot of doctor-bashing on this thread. But if you look closely, it’s mainly coming from one person.

Whether my children are 'as bright as I hoped' is irrelevant, and a deliberate attempt at being belittling.

Not belittling but your posts give very little detail. You have never explained how it was measured that your DD was academically at the level of a 12 to 13 year old at age 7. It sounds like you have gone into school asking about ‘gifted and talented’ provision when it’s a term no longer used and provision that doesn’t exist. By all means ask about differentiation, but then again, written work is pretty much self differentiated so hers should be outstanding by now.

You also say she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+ without providing any context; where you are, how selective it is, whether it is based on VR and NVR or national curriculum subjects. If the former it is not much to do with the school. If the schools are ‘super-selective’ then she is competing with DC every bit as bright as herself many of whom who have had loads of extra focused tutoring.

Surely if you’re in London, you have more than one secondary school to choose from.

@hibbledibble

worried I think you are overestimating how much doctors earn, and how much private school costs. To send one child to private school would be my entire take home wage, and it's not fair to only send one sibling. It's not affordable.

A friend of mine who is a locum GP earns £100k a year.

Am I unreasonable to expect my younger child who isn't meeting expected standards to have support to catch up?^

No I don’t think so, but you say, ‘she is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns’ like this was something specific to your DC. The pandemic has affected millions of children all over the country. The schools will simply have to work with where all the children are now.

I cannot understand OP. At what point didn't she realise she couldn't afford to send her kids to private school. It's a struggle for most let alone whilst trying to be a doctor all at the same time. You have high hopes OP.

Is it really just me, @5329871e? Or are you trapped in a rich doctor bubble? Enjoy:
www.google.com/search?q=are+doctors+arrogant%3F&oq=are+doctors+arrogant

@Iloveabourbon2

I cannot understand OP. At what point didn't she realise she couldn't afford to send her kids to private school. It's a struggle for most let alone whilst trying to be a doctor all at the same time. You have high hopes OP.

What? She said right off the bat that she could never afford a private school, it's in the first few lines of the OP.

I'm another person who didn't appreciate just how much more stretched UK state schools would become with every passing year, from pretty good when they started to 32 child classes and no TAs now. I also feel I've let.my children down, even Vs my own state education.

@OverTheRubicon but if OPs daughter is as bright as she thinks surely she would be fine? OP being a doctor would of been entitled to a key worker place at one of the hubs during the mist of the pandemic.

My child has not fallen behind with his work like lots of other children.... and he doesn't attend a posh school by any means So! In fact it's the total Opposite.

So OP could well be expecting a but too much here.

[quote Theendoftheworldisnigh]Is it really just me, @5329871e? Or are you trapped in a rich doctor bubble? Enjoy:
www.google.com/search?q=are+doctors+arrogant%3F&oq=are+doctors+arrogant[/quote]
Oh wow… you actually linked to a Google search to back up your opinion…

Time to take a break from mumsnet

I do think you are getting way too much criticism here unfairly.

All you are saying is that you think the state school is not giving your child a good education and that a private school will have given them a better one. I’m not sure many could possibly argue with that. Private schools are paid for because, on the whole, they are better.

Everyone saying that its really your fault at home -
A) haven’t read that you have given them full support at home, tutors and support in school too
B) that is similar to paying for private schools isn’t it - giving our children more of a leg up than others outside of school. It’s not a level playing field so let’s be honest about that. You can’t berate the OP for thinking of private school and on the other hand also berate her for not giving her kids enough tutors or expert homework help.

Some state schools are good, and some kids will flourish wherever. I flourished in a state school, and some of it was quite rough (inner city deprived area). However even my parents did move me at one point in secondary school because the level of violence in the school was out of hand.

We have a system of state schools where middle class parents, like myself, will move to be in the better ones quite often. I did with my kids. I also paid for home tutors and used my abilities to help them. So I don’t raise myself above anyone who paid for a private school because I did very much the same, I was privileged enough to be able to move and pay for tutors.

@NCBlossom

I do think you are getting way too much criticism here unfairly.

All you are saying is that you think the state school is not giving your child a good education and that a private school will have given them a better one. I’m not sure many could possibly argue with that. Private schools are paid for because, on the whole, they are better.

Everyone saying that its really your fault at home -
A) haven’t read that you have given them full support at home, tutors and support in school too
B) that is similar to paying for private schools isn’t it - giving our children more of a leg up than others outside of school. It’s not a level playing field so let’s be honest about that. You can’t berate the OP for thinking of private school and on the other hand also berate her for not giving her kids enough tutors or expert homework help.

Some state schools are good, and some kids will flourish wherever. I flourished in a state school, and some of it was quite rough (inner city deprived area). However even my parents did move me at one point in secondary school because the level of violence in the school was out of hand.

We have a system of state schools where middle class parents, like myself, will move to be in the better ones quite often. I did with my kids. I also paid for home tutors and used my abilities to help them. So I don’t raise myself above anyone who paid for a private school because I did very much the same, I was privileged enough to be able to move and pay for tutors.

I think you’re not seeing the multitude of posts that are trying to help the OP see the wood for the trees. Sending a child to private school is only one side of the coin. Disinterested parents will not get the greatest value out of sending their children to a private school. The OP has not been able to secure a tutor since covid, this is from the OP.

What I and some of the other PP are commenting on is the woe is me attitude that the OP has. Her DDs aren’t where she would like them to be, a teacher has 30 children in a class it isn’t always possible to give each one the perfect task to stretch them all adequately especially if you have a child who is struggling to behave (as the OPs daughter is) or is struggling to get the concepts being taught (as the other OPs daughter is). The OPs daughters as stated by her own posts are likely taking up a disproportionate amount of time from each of the other students who are also there to learn. Whereas the OP has two children, she can find things they enjoy and make them educational. Most of our weekends are filled with educational activities, not necessarily discreet educational activities.

A teacher I was observing once had the mantra of come to me with solutions not problems. For example instead of saying I don’t have a pen, ask if it is possible to borrow one.

My point it the OP needs to come up with solutions that she can affect. There is no point being down in the dumps about not being able to afford private schools, but to make a way for state schooling work for her and her DCs for many this is tutoring but I would suggest being proactive and buying National Curriculum books and working with both children for 20 minutes a day with a day off in the week would make all the difference.

Surely if you’re in London, you have more than one secondary school to choose from

Nope, in outer London and I can tell you this problem is very real an existential crisis for me in this private/grammar/comp/housing/job continuum, due to sheer numbers. There are different dynamics outside London. I can just about afford it but I'm not sure it's worth the while, given life is full of surprises.

I feel for OP because I'd move; i have medic friends that still have years of specialty training and often both husband and wife are medics and I know it is not as simple as uprooting the family and go. Many DCs classmates move further out for secondary for that reason.

itsnotover:

A friend of mine who is a locum GP earns £100k a year.
...
Good for your friend but not everyone wants to be a locum forever, many want to build a career.

Of course you could spend that much buying a house in Waldegrave catchment but you don't have to, there are much more affordable properties in catchment.
Prioritising education by living in a great school catchment often means living in a worse house than you might in another area. That's the choice you make.

@Testingprof I get your point, you are trying to get the OP to make the best of a bad situation.

I guess I was trying to highlight, that it is a bad situation and it’s OK for the OP to squarely realise that. I do believe her that the school are failing her kids. They would have had a better chance in private school.

And school is the main place where you get the education, it’s where your child spends the most time. I was OK I went to a middling state school but I was naturally academic and self motivated so I did really well. My kids are not naturally academic, but they have many qualities (like all kids) that were either ignored or crushed at school.

The state schools for the OP and for many parents are not giving them the best education. It’s around the ‘okayish’ for many, but really does not get the best out of the kids whether this is academic work, or all around socialisation or creativity etc. Many of my friends are teachers and they are tired, jaded and constantly juggling inspections and standards. Focus is often wrong in my view, sometimes it seems it is all ‘woke’ and not enough basic discipline, confidence and good core skills.

For my older son, he hated secondary. He was ‘bright’ but thought he was stupid by the end of it. Because he has trouble concentrating, and half the teachers were not that good, too much chaos in the classrooms, no pastoral care, huge class sizes (leading to noise, disruption, teacher not having time for any individuals) and long days spent in very boring teaching styles. He also needed organisation skills that he didn’t have and wasn’t helped with, going from class to class.

I also, like the OP, feel bad for my kid that he wasn’t given a better experience and I know that the local private school would have given him that. I know partly because he took an ‘extra’ class twice a week there for a year and he absolutely loved it. Suddenly he went from bottom of the class at Maths to near the top. His teacher was excellent, the class size was small and he said he wasnt’ distracted, and that he felt for the first time ever, confident enough to ask for help and not made to feel stupid.

All you are saying is that you think the state school is not giving your child a good education and that a private school will have given them a better one. I’m not sure many could possibly argue with that. Private schools are paid for because, on the whole, they are better.

But in that case, I’m not sure what OP is asking. What are people supposed to say? Yes you have utterly failed? No you haven’t utterly failed? Did OP come on to have a good moan, to bash state schools or ask for constructive advice? There might be more advice if more information was given. Agree with previous poster that OP sounds very defeatist.

Unfortunately, the thread has been very much derailed by people criticising OPs choice of career coupled with ridiculous comments about doctors’ salaries.

OP maybe you're kids are doing as well as they naturally can, nothing wrong in not being brilliant grade A students, we all have talents that sometimes don't show up at school. Maybe if your eldest was 5 yrs ahead then evened out she was an early developer which is fine too.

I guess part of my hopes that some discussions on mumsnet might lead us to greater awareness of our society. For me I do think state schools are often not great, trying their best under difficult circumstances but that we have thousands of kids who do not have a great experience of secondary.

For me that awareness or discussion isn’t necessarily a negative one, as recognising this could lead us to vote for politicians who would support state schools. And I also think it might lead us to a greater tolerance that not everyone gets a level playing field. Kids in state schools, well ones that are struggling (I know there are some good ones), do not have the same opportunities as others. There is privilege and for me our society is still way, way too divided. I don’t dislike the grammar school system for example but now, as opposed to the past, it is being filled with kids whose parents would not pay for private but will move heaven and earth to get them in - forcing bright kids locally out whose parents don’t get highly paid tutors for the 11+ for example.

These same parents will not support changes for secondary schools or more funding etc, as they do not see how many state schools are still not great because they moved / got their kids into grammar.

@PlanDeRaccordement

No, I can't afford a better area though. Medical doctors don't earn as much as many think.

You likely earn by yourself more than what the average couple earns together in the U.K. GPs are lowest paid doctors and they start at £60k.

So you’re either used to very posh areas and think a middle class area is “rough” or you’re somehow burning money frivolously if you think you can’t afford a nice area with good state school.

This made me laugh!!! You need to look again at the starting salary for when a person leaves medical school. You are incorrect.

OP, I totally understand you cannot send even one child to private school on a single dr's wage. Things have change. Private school is much less "affordable" now than it used to be. Largely due to massive inflation in the housing market.

@worriedatthemoment

Op why are you only a junior dr then with your private education? Was that a choice , do you intend to go further ? I did also say lower end private school not all are £20000 a year some are less as my friend sent her children to one and they had everyday jobs , plus one of her children got a scholarship which also brings fees down

Some remarkably ill-informed posts on here, goodness! Most Drs you see in your lifetime will be "only" a junior doctor. They do a great job.

You’re putting a lot of blame on the school when really it’s not just down to them.
Maybe your children just aren’t academic, some aren’t and that’s just how it is.

If we agree with you, what are you planning to do about it?

Sorry OP but London prices are the highest in the U.K., you’re not earning a high salary and the schools which are accessible to you sound poor. So this is a question of priorities. In your shoes, I would move out of London to somewhere which would work a lot better for my family (I’m guessing they need doctors everywhere in the U.K.).

I had a friend who was a single mother of 3 in a high stress job and barely making it all work. She moved to Scotland where the state school options open to her were a lot better, housing was cheaper and she would be able to send her children to uni there for free. She never looked back. Not saying that specifically would work for you, but there must be other options you could explore.