To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

Again, moving to a better area isn't an option, and not necessarily a certainty regarding better schools. I live in London, so housing is very expensive. My work is tied to London currently

If your work is tied to London you have the biggest choice of schools in the country where you can live and stay within permitted distance of the hospital.

Comedy you are right that it's a totally different demographic in private schools now. When I went the parents were normal middle class professionals. Now most of those parents wouldn't be able to afford it

I'm not convinced about that. The local private schools are still well stocked with the children of doctors dentists, business owners and lawyers, just as they were in my day. State schools also had children from all of the above.

I'd be interested to see the percentage of secondary school pupils in private provision in E&W now as compared to the 90s - I don't think the difference is as large as it may seem.

@hibbledibble

Whether my children are 'as bright as I hoped' is irrelevant, and a deliberate attempt at being belittling.

Am I unreasonable to expect my younger child who isn't meeting expected standards to have support to catch up? The school is failing children at both ends of the ability spectrum.

It isn't irrelevant, it is entirely relevant. Maybe the reason your child at (your own perceived) 'higher end' isn't being given extra work and stretched, is because she isn't at the higher end at all, but completely in the middle?

Am I unreasonable to expect my younger child who isn't meeting expected standards to have support to catch up?

Depends how hard you're willing to fight for it. Schools are under pressure and it wont just fall into your lap. Figure out what your DD needs and what's available, your child might be competing for scarce resources with a lot of kids who are even more needy than she is but if you know what you want and how to ask she may still get it. With a private school if your DD needs extra support you could throw money at the problem, but as things stand you'll have to do a lot of the legwork yourself.

It depends what you mean by 'extra support to catch up'
1:1 learning support is pretty much not going to happen unless they have an EHCP so if that's what you asked the head for then no wonder they said they aren't funded for that

What should happen (and perhaps is happening) is that the school should have done assessments to know where the gaps are and adjusted their teaching to address these. They likely would then offer those children who need it extra small group sessions. That's what we have planned in our school.

Even if you want to be cynical it's not in the schools interests for a child who is capable of attaining good results not to do so as it looks bad on them. Schools will make a lot of effort to 'make accelerated progress' in the jargon for kids just missing the mark as they have most potential to affect the published data.

It's really quite likely that most of the class
are in the same position due to lockdowns.
We found that younger children (KS1) who were less capable of engaging with the home learning and children who had poor family support have been the worst affected.

In lockdown 1 the key worker provision was explicitly childcare. In lockdown 2 the key worker children were being taught the same content as that set online for home learning but likely not by their own teacher and at times by a TA as the teachers were on a rota to come in and some could not as shielding.

Are you a lone parent, OP?

I am sure if your daughter is as bright as you say she is then she would not have failed 2 rounds of 11 plus exams.

Just because a child is bright on entering school doesn't mean they can attain it, kids learn at different stages. Some that appear very bright at first level out with their peers.

If your child wanted to learn she would be doing it out of school as well as in it.

Op only refers to 'I' rather than 'we' so I assume a lone parent. Which would be tough with the rotas and hours she'll have to work as a Junior Doctor. The female doctors I know had children in their early thirties for this reason (mind you so did I). Much as I think OP is being unreasonable in her assumptions of her children' school, I do think she has her work cut out.

Are the local state secondaries really as bad as you are making out OP, or is it just in comparison with the preferred option super-selective ones? There are some London state schools that operate a lottery system (so catchment area not an issue). Kingsdale is the one that obviously springs to mind. Or could you go down the 'faith' school route?

I think you may find that bright and motivated DC at the less popular schools receive a lot of encouragement to achieve academically, as it helps the school enormously in terms of attracting future pupils and upping local reputation.

@hibbledibble if your child has become the class clown you need to deal with that. Punish her at home if you truly believe she is capable and bored or find her help if she is struggling with the rigours of the classroom.

In my experience the class clown isn’t incredibly smart and bored. They are often hiding their lack of understanding by deflecting. You need to grip the situation now and not be passive, you are your child's advocate. I’ve both been the parent and the teacher and I find many parents are unwilling to take responsibility for the extra help that their child needs. An example I had to deal with a parent wanted me to stop setting homework as her DC was not completing it, it was a GCSE subject and the homework was extra practice tasks to enable the DC to complete controlled assessment to a higher ability in the DC’s case at all. I made time available for the DC to come to be at lunchtimes/ during the holidays so they could have my help to complete these tasks. The parent refused to see any of that as good enough the only outcome she wanted is no homework, for an issue an expensive educational psychologist couldn’t find. Why the parent couldn’t sit with her own child and ensure he did it either by just setting a 30 minute timer and him stopping at that point and handing it in, I have no idea but I had offered what I could other than asking for the child to withdraw from my subject.

As a parent I go in with the question what can I do to extend my DSs learning. Regardless of struggling or excelling the question is the same.

Your excuses around tutoring are exactly that, excuses. I found a tutor the end of July just so DS could get some 11+ practice. He is tutored remotely. We also tested a remote tutoring facility through Mumsnet recently and they had space the next day.

I may sound harsh but now is not the time to feel sorry for yourself your children need you to pick yourself up and crack on.

I highly doubt the local state schools are as bad as she makes out

I'm really surprised that you've found getting and retaining a tutor throughout the pandemic a problem. I'm a tutor and know many others. As soon as the pandemic struck we went online (for a long time tutoring F2F contravened Covid law) and I've never been so busy! You've been very unlucky to go through several tutors - good luck finding another.

@toothpicklover

I am sure if your daughter is as bright as you say she is then she would not have failed 2 rounds of 11 plus exams.

Just because a child is bright on entering school doesn't mean they can attain it, kids learn at different stages. Some that appear very bright at first level out with their peers.

If your child wanted to learn she would be doing it out of school as well as in it.

Please stop with this. It isn’t helpful nor is it true. Plenty of other posters have pointed out the 11+ requires specific experience with many children being tutored from Year 4 or for some from reception. An exceptionally bright child can ‘fail’ the 11+ because they haven’t experienced some of the questions. As an aside one of the private schools I visited stated that they are now using questions that can’t be tutored but require innate ability and are also getting children to do tasks in the interview to weed out the excessively tutored children.

State schools will not prepare the children for it, neither did the private school I taught at.

I also did wonder what DH is up to in all this?

I am assuming doing a high flying job, probably surgery, at a London's teaching hospital. Hence why they can never move away. But that does them beg the question of why they couldn't afford their heart's desire of private school with 2 registrars level salaries with OOH supplements and London weighting.
Maybe he isn't a Dr at all.

I also think they must have had kids fairly early and am surprised that at least one of them is not a consultant yet.

I had my 1st DC at 26 as a registrar after passing my membership exams and getting the worst of the tier 1 on call out of the way as was standard practice at the time. I then worked PT and had my 2nd at 31. I was a consultant before he'd started school. That was despite time out for PHD research (pre kids) and being part time after DC1.

These days I see more drs are having kids younger pre membership and doing part time flexible working. It's not a bad thing certainly not fertility wise but the consequences are that it condemns you to a longer period of lower pay, studying for exams and harder hours whilst kids are small. Medicine is done on time served to a large extent. You have to do a minimum of 8-10 years full time equivalent in lower grades to get to consultant and if you are part time then it's proportionately longer.

I see quite a trend for male Drs to work part time too when their kids are small and again I really support that but if you choose to both work LTFT then you won't be able to afford private school but you will be around more to support their education.

We all make choices in line with our values and we have to wear the consequences so if academic success is very important to you and you fundamentally believe that only private or grammar will give your kids that then you have to make choices that will allow you to pay for it eg live somewhere cheaper or get to consultant as fast as you can and do private work on the side if you can.

@toothpicklover

I am sure if your daughter is as bright as you say she is then she would not have failed 2 rounds of 11 plus exams.

Just because a child is bright on entering school doesn't mean they can attain it, kids learn at different stages. Some that appear very bright at first level out with their peers.

If your child wanted to learn she would be doing it out of school as well as in it.

The 11+ is often an exam style that they don't teach in state schools eg non verbal reasoning so even a bright child would benefit from some practice and coaching in exam technique like if you don't know the answer move on to the next one and come back to it. The maths also assumes you know more than national curriculum for that age and it's unclear what subject OP's dd tested as 12 years old in.

State schools aren't allowed to teach for the 11+.

I went to a state comp in Birmingham and finished with a PhD in chemistry from one of our top universities. I’m now an ex-pat.

My working class, non-university educated parents wouldn’t have had a hope in hell of sending me or siblings to private. But they valued education and always supported and encouraged us.

If the kids are intelligent, interested in learning and supported at home, they’ll do well anywhere. Likewise, if they are very average (or below) and are shoved into an independent by disinterested parents, they’ll do badly (although their privilege will likely carry them anyway - just look at the cabinet for proof).

You really feel there is nothing you can do, don't you?

You've got to try to find the things you can do about the situation.

It's just not true you need £1m+ in London to live in catchment for an excellent, non selective state school. Waldegrave girls school being an excellent example. It's entirely feasible for Drs on your salary to live in catchment for that school.

OP didn’t say you need 1million+ she simply said an ‘obscene’ amount. (Although you do need a million in many areas).

A 3-4 bed house in the catchment for Waldegrave would be around 850k.

And that would be tiny. A typical family house in Twickenham or Teddington would 1.3 million+

It’s not clear whether OP just wanted to vent or if she wants suggestions.

Changing deanery isn’t straightforward but it’s not impossible. Depending on where you are in your ST, OP, I’d be looking seriously at the potential to relocate to another major teaching trust. Birmingham seems an obvious choice but you would need to choose your location carefully as there are admissions black holes.

Academic achievement isn't everything. Also it has been proven that home background is the most deciding factor in how a child does academically and not the actual school.

I'd do wonder how much money is being spent on other things. Eg a house that is more expensive than necessary. Holidays that are more expensive than necessary. Doctors do have a reputation for being entitled, which has been demonstrated on this thread.

I agree that academic achievement is often 'topped up' by parents at home. As long as you aren't entirely focussing on that though?

You are putting your lens only on academic achievement (which is understandable as you went to private school). What about your children's wellbeing? You don't mention if they are happy? If they are enjoying their childhood? If they do art, music, sport etc? Are they safe? There is a lot more to a well rounded child than their academic ability.

I have had some eye watering safeguarding issues on my case load from children who attended a private girls school in my locality, they were academically brilliant but had very little parental supervision and social support and were plagued by eating disorders, self harm, low self esteem, CSE, criminal exploitation and suicidal. You may well pay for an excellent education but as Maslow says, if you don't sort out the fundamental needs first, it isn't worth it. Perhaps your DC are just happy they have you, feel little pressure and are enjoying their childhood? A stress free, stable childhood is worth its weight in gold. Under estimate that at our peril.

@toothpicklover

I am sure if your daughter is as bright as you say she is then she would not have failed 2 rounds of 11 plus exams.

Just because a child is bright on entering school doesn't mean they can attain it, kids learn at different stages. Some that appear very bright at first level out with their peers.

If your child wanted to learn she would be doing it out of school as well as in it.

The grammar tests in London seem more fraught than elsewhere - only around the top 2% get places rather than, say, top 15% down on the south coast, where I am originally from. And in the part of London I think the OP is from, there is insane competition and lots of kids end up with exactly the same score, so you can still do well on the test, but not get a hope of a place because there are a huge number of other kids with 0.1 of a mark ahead of you. The admissions arrangements also have lots of weird quirks to boot depending on the school.

So it seems as much about supply (very little) and demand (huge) and where you are on the waitlist, rather than a simple pass/fail dichotomy from what I can tell. (Totally happy to be corrected if I’ve got something wrong though. I’ve not been through it myself.)

Also, lockdown has done weird things to all sorts of kids. My DD loves to learn and read, but in lockdown the virtual schooling did not work for her at all. And the school had no resources to help. Had to find alternative things to do with her myself and had I not been able to take some time off work, I think it would have been an absolute nightmare. As it was, it was super stressful. So glad schools are back now…

@TweetyPieBird
You need a PGCE with QTS or Bachelors of Education (both are qualified teaching degrees) to teach in state schools.

Wrong. You don't need to be qualified (have QTS) to teach in Academies and Free schools - i.e. the majority of state secondary schools in England. Yes most teachers will be but they don't have to be, just like in private schools.

@SafeMove

Excellent post!