To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

Why are you not answering the question about your children’s father in this? Is he on the scene? If so, what is his view?

Purple, if your kids have special educational needs, that's one thing , but if you think your kids needs more special attention, join the queue, are your kids too
'Bright' for state school?

You need to catch a fucking grip, you're in a very privileged position already OP, do you expect our sympathy? Most people can't afford to send their kids to private school and plenty of children do very well in state schools, maybe your kids aren't as bright as you'd hoped.

maybe your kids aren't as bright as you'd hoped.
This is often what it boils down to, sadly.

Whether my children are 'as bright as I hoped' is irrelevant, and a deliberate attempt at being belittling.

Am I unreasonable to expect my younger child who isn't meeting expected standards to have support to catch up? The school is failing children at both ends of the ability spectrum.

I think people are giving the op a really hard time.
My guess is that she is in London/SE and is stuck there until she finishes training at least - so can't very easily move into the catchment of a great state school, without discovering a spare £1mil (!)
Also I suspect the 11+ exam for eldest DD is for a super selective, for which you must get into top 2pc, instead of being top 10pc as at normal grammars. This means the DD could actually be a working a year or two above her age but still quite conceivably fail to make it in.
In short, I wouldn't beat yourself up op!
First, I would not discount the secondary school, as long as its OFSTED is at least good. Also we're living in 2021 not the 50s/60s/70s - when if you didn't pass the 11+ you were highly unlikely to go to uni/ effectively barred from the top jobs. There will be a whole range of ability in those schools and loads of opportunities for DD to pick up the pace.
And if she gets decent GSCEs she could go to one of the many great state sixth forms in London, some of which rival a fair few rival private schools when it comes to results. Sorry to have rambled on so much if you are not in London but perhaps this might prove to be vaguely helpful to someone else at least!

running yes you are spot on. I'm in London and a family house in a good area near good schools costs an obscene amount.

Selective schools are also very hard to get into. I do feel stuck with a rubbish hand in London.

@Puffalicious

Reading this thread there is so much judgement of schools. Schools have teachers that are trained to the same level: there is no difference on how well qualified a teacher is no matter where they teach: they all need a PGCE!

It's not the teachers that are the problem IMO, most at state school are probably better than at many privates, but it's the class sizes, the time spent on crowd control, the curriculum, the inability to choose a school ethos, environment or system that suits your child, and bloody ofsted expecting schools to improve every year meaning most schools "teach to the test".

@hibbledibble

running yes you are spot on. I'm in London and a family house in a good area near good schools costs an obscene amount.

Selective schools are also very hard to get into. I do feel stuck with a rubbish hand in London.

Not just London either, to live in catchment for the good secondary schools here houses start at about £700k for a terraced 3 bed.

Mostly due to utter incompetence from our council, 4 of the 5 closest secondaries from my house are off the table (all within 2 miles), leaving a shit one in a rough area run by an academy chain I don't trust.

The system isn't designed so that all kids have to meet expected standard. If all kids met expected standard then they'd raise the benchmark because expected standard is about politicians looking like they've designed a rigorous and challenging curriculum.

There will always be kids who don't meet expected standard. My August born ds didn't meet expected standard in year 2 but met it in year 6 and is predicted the odd A equivalent at GCSE. I worried about him in KS1 but he proves that learning is not linear and it's been worth putting in the extra work.

Do you know any year 2 or year 6 parents? Some schools only offer catchup in those years in order to inflate SATS scores.

@hibbledibble

All the posts talking about work at home and tutors are really missing the point that children should be learning at school.

Yes they should be learning at school, but the reality is, if they’re not then tutoring is what you’re left with! And not everyone can afford that to help their D.C. either

@Puffalicious

Agreed. I went to a mixed comp just outside Glasgow. Parents went to Holyrood (large state school) and we’ve all done pretty well

Yes, thepinknecklace I was at mixed, state comp, as are my DC. DC1 is applying to Oxford for 2022 after getting 5x A band 1 at Higher. He's had no tutors either.

I do think we're on a much better position up here: not that our education system is any better (the years of that have long gone), but the fact that kids generally go to their local school as they must get a place if they're in the catchment makes a huge difference. This means they're genuine comprehensive schools, helped by the fact there's no grammars or selective schools at all, which are all held to the same standards. Each school is much of a muchness with opportunity for all.

I work in the East End in a traditionally very poor area with huge social issues: we have loads of kids off to university, 2 started medicine this year and 1 is applying to Cambridge for 2022 and I know she'll get in. It's a different ballgame up here.

@hibbledibble

Whether my children are 'as bright as I hoped' is irrelevant, and a deliberate attempt at being belittling.

Am I unreasonable to expect my younger child who isn't meeting expected standards to have support to catch up? The school is failing children at both ends of the ability spectrum.

If your child is struggling you need to be proactive in getting help. If your child is excelling you need to be proactive with stretching them.

Stop blaming the school and feeling sorry for yourself and work on a plan so each of your children’s educational needs are met. Many of the children excelling in my DSs class go home and do at least an hour of work, the ones that are struggling don’t. Their parents are often complaining about the school doing nothing while not sitting with them and getting them to read or getting them to do their homework, they are now upper primary and struggling to read.

testingprof is right. I'm sure many private school teachers would say exactly the same thing. The greatest predictor of a child's success is what happens at home. I don't buy the idea that it's impossible to do anything meaningful or engaging at home because the awful state school has had such a deadening effect. I think this is simply down to a poor parent child dynamic which could be fixed with time and a sorely needed sense of agency. Where the younger child is concerned, it's clear that direction is needed but ultimately the input required from home will be massive. Speaking as a teacher, the flying hours are supervised by you, not me.

I admire your honesty. I have many friends who were privately educated but now liberal / Labour I guess and abhor the private school system.

However they all moved to Grammar school areas and had tutors to get their kids through the 11+

I could not afford private school either but my kids would have massively benefitted from it. They were not natural academics, like I was, (I did okay in a state school). For both their schools are just not able to give them a decent education. So they are sinking. They have trouble concentrating and the schools are just shocking in the lack of support.

I got some money together for an extra maths class for the oldest ran by a local private school for one year and the difference was astounding. The teacher was excellent and my son responded immediately. He learnt more in that year than he had in the previous 4 years.

I feel sad as I do want all kids to have a good education. But many state schools are struggling. The class sizes are huge. Some have quite troubled kids and try concentrating when the lessons are chaotic. You can’t.

So I don’t know what the solution is. But honesty is better than pretending all kids here are getting a great education. They aren’t. Teachers are tired, overwhelmed. System is creaking. Kids are increasingly chaotic in many areas. Expectations are low.

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-evidence/teaching-learning-toolkit/reducing-class-size

People always spout on about class sizes as the advantage of private school but in fact there is little evidence that class size has much link to attainment.
Surprising perhaps but there is much data to support the lack of a link
Quality of teaching is what counts and many excellent teachers actively want to teach in state comprehensive schools

Not passing the 11+ is given as a marker that the child is 'not making progress' but as a teacher upthread said the knowledge needed just isn't on the primary curriculum so perhaps she is indeed making progress as her teachers say but just not in the narrow way that you wanted because really you always wanted a private education or at least the next best thing ie a grammar
Hence you are disappointed but maybe you don't need to be. Maybe you should just change your expectations.
Is your child unhappy? Does she talk to you about what she learns? My kids are often really fired up about what they are learning and we can have interesting talks about it all. DS is doing WW2 as are most Y6 In state schools I think and he's loving going through family photos and talking to his grandparents about their parents experiences. They have a holocaust survivor come to talk to them. They dressed up and made cardboard has masks and rationing recipes.
They have loads of great educational experiences that I would have loved a lot more then rote learning times tables and spellings and lists of Tudor royals that was all I remember doing.

Re the younger child not making ARE that is the case for many younger DC this year because of Covid lockdowns causing them to miss out on a huge amount of education. Schools will have done assessments and have catch up plans in place that they are applying at a class level and targeted to kids who need it.
You can see how they plan to spend catch up finding on the website as this info has to be published.

How do I know this? I volunteer as a school governor alongside working as an NHS consultant because I really believe in comprehensive local education and I put my money where my mouth is on that. I recommend it as a way of finding out what actually goes on and I think you would come away with a lot of respect for teachers as fellow professionals. The ones I meet are passionate about doing the best for children.

You can apply to transfer programme to a different training scheme if you want to and lots of people do it and have done especially this year. We have been very happy here in the provinces to welcome many Drs exiting London this year.
Seriously do consider it. It's likely you would have a better quality of life as a family. You could afford a bigger house and childcare is less expensive. Don't pick a grammar school area just look for a place with good schools where you can afford housing. If one of you needs to still commute to London then again loads of people do that.
Maybe this is the wake up call to make a big move?

Where I do have more sympathy is people saying you need to educate them at home more
There has been this little global pandemic thing on that has meant the last 2 years have been the worst of my career by quite a long chalk. I think vipers needs to cut OP some slack on not maintaining a full out of school education programme whilst working for the NHS this year and last.

Your posts read as if you have been too busy with your career to keep an eye on your children's education and have missed the small slips until now they are too large to overcome. Yes schools should provide adequate education but some just don't, this isn't unpublished.

Parents we know do a hell of a lot of work with their children to keep them to a high standard, regardless of private or state schooling. How did you not know about reading schemes, did your children not have reading books sent home? Did you not see the colour bands or level x on them and become curious what they might mean and simply Google? Our children even understand they take part in a reading scheme.

Sorry but I can't marry up an engaged parent with a lack of knowledge of something as basic as a reading scheme.

@sheiselectric

I promise I'm not trying to be an arse...but if you went through private and can't afford to send your kid to private now...then surely you know going to private school isn't the be all and end all.

Children can go to state schools and still go on to have wonderful careers just as many private school students go on to have very average careers.

I have a great job and a lovely well rounded education. But this job doesn't mean I I afford private school (think nursing, teaching, social work). So a bit of a dickish comment assuming good job must mean high income.

And I feel for you op. I feel guilty about state school purely because I went to private, otherwise I wouldn't!

@hibbledibble

Do you currently rent or own your home?

Renting a home - even somewhere very small - in a good catchment might be an option. You don't have to move out of London.

Have you ever considered a live-in au pair?

It seems to me that your older child may have fallen victim to the hodge podge childcare arrangements you have been forced to cobble together. Some children respond to uncertainty and unpredictability in their daily routines by creating their own routines, and some are completely thrown by it.

Can you afford a private ed psych evaluation of your children?
You need to start with an honest assessment of the children themselves along with signposts to guide you forward, not arse covering of the sort you have been getting form the head teacher.

@hibbledibble

Tilly I didn't sit and do nothing. I had multiple meetings with school, and engaged a tutor. Unfortunately the tutor couldn't continue due to pandemic related issues. I found another tutor, but the provision has been less than ideal again, due to pandemic reasons. Because of my job/covid, I couldn't find anyone willing to tutor my daughter in person (as I was too high risk, and my family as an extension). The whole situation has been less than ideal. I did daily work with her, but it's been difficult when she's tired from a day of school, and also learns very little. Due to boredom at school, she decided to become the class clown. Hindsight is a great thing, but honestly I tried my best given the situation and limitations.

OP it absolutely sounds like you did everything you could. Please be kind to yourself.

On top of being intelligent, you must have been a good worker at school to achieve as you did. Some of that may have been your school, but more down to your own personality. Perhaps DD would have fared this way wherever she was because that is how her personality manifests itself in a learning environment?

Do remember that many independent schools aren't as good at teaching learning strategies. They take the brightest and don't get in their way. If a child needs a careful steer, or more support than usual, they often aren't at all the best places. I speak from experience.

You have not failed your DC. They are being brought up in a loving home where importance is placed on education. That will be having a profound effect. There is a long road yet for them to show how their unique attributes bring them success in life. You won't bring satisfaction to this situation by looking backwards, however understandably tempting it is. Wish you well.

@BiscuitLover09876

And I feel for you op. I feel guilty about state school purely because I went to private, otherwise I wouldn't!

So maybe you are actually doing your kids a favour by freeing them from this guilt in future?

I went to a state comprehensive and did extremely well there, so it has never occurred to me to feel guilty about sending dd to a state school even though we could afford to send her private. Why would I? I'm confident that it isn't necessary. However, there are clearly a few privately educated parents on here who feel bad for not being able to do the same for their kids. That's quite a burden to have to carry.

I'm not sure all these state school success stories are really making any dent in ops guilt!