To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

I went to private school in the 1980/90s. Back then they were full of kids from very ordinary families. Yes, their families made some sacrifices but it was still possible to afford private school without being particularly wealthy. I naively assumed that once I had children, they'd also go to private school...I genuinely thought only poor people went to state school. The world is very different now!

So how do all you state school naysayers, account for all the kids that excel in state schools

@hibbledibble

My experience of my child, is that she has learnt little at school. The school's stance seems to have been that she is bright and will pass baseline testing, so why bother. It's great if other schools will cater for bright children, but mine doesn't, and many other posters have experienced similar.

In hindsight, I didn't focus the work for the 11+ enough, and struggled to get tutors. She also resisted working a lot. She was so used to coasting at school that she was not used to any remotely challenging work, so hadn't learnt resilience as a result.

Finally, for my child who is behind academically, surely I'm not unreasonable in expecting the school to offer support to catch up?

A lot of focus on the bright child and the 11+, but I'm not asking for much for her sibling to be supported to meet baseline standards.

Being bright enough to pass baseline testing shouldn't make any difference, OP. State schools are expected to demonstrate pupil progress, not just ensure a minimum standard of attainment. If your child has made no progress since she joined the school at age 7, which is what you appear to be saying, then that is a problem and it needs to be addressed. The question, I suppose, is whether the school agrees with your assessment. What have they told you about her progress to date?

As for your younger child, yes, it's reasonable to expect intervention if she is failing to meet the minimum expectations for her age. Does she have SEN of any sort?

Oh ok @purplebatbear fair enough. Where I live it’s only one round!

YOU are their primary educator.

I know doctors with bright children who they have sent to private schools. These children also just coasted and achieved very little academically. It isn't the school that's the problem, some children just don't have the work ethic for whatever reason. No doubt they will all survive in the long run.

I mean this in the absolute kindest way, but are you sure they're so gifted and talented if they can't get through the 11plus?

@Macncheeseballs

So how do all you state school naysayers, account for all the kids that excel in state schools

There are some children that excel but statistically it's a relatively small percentage in comparison. In my previous school we had 100% pass rate in SATs and over 75% exceeding. No local state school results were comparable.

I simply don't believe that your DD has learned nothing since age 7, that is patently ridiculous. My DC at comprehensive, yes no selection here in Scotland at all, and ALL my friend's DC in many parts of the country and my friend's DC in the South East/ NI are all doing well in state. You are unnecessarily focused on private, it is not a magic wand.

Alexa no, no diagnosed SEN for the younger child. I have asked whether it is worth assessing for this, but have been told no, by the teachers.

Comedy you are right that it's a totally different demographic in private schools now. When I went the parents were normal middle class professionals. Now most of those parents wouldn't be able to afford it.

The eldest the child's teachers are off the opinion that she is making progress, but then I don't think they would be quick to admit it if they thought she wasn't making progress.

purplebatbear Jesus, that's because they're selective! They're already academically bright, of course they'll have good results academically. FFS

@Calvinlookingforhobbes

YOU are their primary educator.

How do you justify that comment? A child spends 39 weeks a year in school, from Monday to Friday. When they are at home they invariably do not want to learn as they are tired; are often taking part in non-academic clubs or are watching tv/playing/eating or sleeping. Sleeping forms the main part of their hours away from school during the week.

The parent may be the child's main educator when it come to social/emotional education but cannot possibly be their main academic educator.

Purplebatbear, so what's stopping your kid/s being one of those who excel in state school

@worriedatthemoment

Op why are you only a junior dr then with your private education? Was that a choice , do you intend to go further ? I did also say lower end private school not all are £20000 a year some are less as my friend sent her children to one and they had everyday jobs , plus one of her children got a scholarship which also brings fees down

What a silly comment ... all doctors are junior doctors earlier on in their career!

@Puffalicious

purplebatbear Jesus, that's because they're selective! They're already academically bright, of course they'll have good results academically. FFS

No. The school i worked at was not selective in any way. They got those results by having small classes with focused education. There were no selective entrance tests. Money was the only deciding factor.

No. The school i worked at was not selective in any way. They got those results by having small classes with focused education. There were no selective entrance tests. Money was the only deciding factor.

This completely misses the fact that there is a significant degree of self selection going on when wealthy parents who care about education decide to send their dc to private schools.

@Macncheeseballs

Purplebatbear, so what's stopping your kid/s being one of those who excel in state school

My children have certain specific needs which the school has failed to recognise and act upon. I have to tailor their teaching at home very carefully. The teachers within their school just don't have the time or support to tailor the education in a way that works for them whilst they have such large classes.

OP I know several medics and I'm in awe of what you manage on a daily basis - parenting DC on top of being a junior doctor is one hell of an achievement in itself.

Just a few things that strike me, reading your posts:

1. There is no point beating yourself up about not being to afford private school. It is what it is and you are where you are. If you're able to afford some tutoring now to help your DC during the secondary years then that could be a really good compromise.

1. The London grammar school 11+ process is brutal and many many bright DC will not pass. This is disappointing but not the end of the world. It does not mean these DC will never achieve.

1. I know of DC who "failed" the 11+ who then went on to do so well at their bog standard comps, got great A levels and went on to great universities.

1. I also know of DC who have flown through the 11+ but struggled with certain subjects during their time at their grammar and parents have then had to support with tutoring as teachers seemed to have no idea how to support a struggling child - they only knew how to deal with the effortlessly achieving ones. The grammar school system is by no means perfect (neither is the private one).

1. A child who achieves well at a comp could very easily have the edge over a private school educated child who achieves similarly well (see the other threads on here about that!) and be a far more attractive, impressive prospect to university admissions.

1. If a child is loved and happy and supported at home they have the potential to achieve well anywhere. You are doing a lot for your DC. Ultimately that will pay off.

I know it's easy enough to type all this stuff but try and focus on what you can do for your DC. Forget about the 11+ disappointment, help your child plan for the transition to secondary and be happy and positive about that change. Support academics with some tutoring if you can afford it. Be proud of your DC and what they have the potential to achieve. Good luck.

@hibbledibble

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

Quality of state schools varies so much in this country, so I would look to move them ASAP.

Do an hour of work each night (as much as your work allows) & teach them yourself on Sat & Sundays. Look into online tutors if pandemic is making it hard to find one.

Ignore all of the posters, bad state schools are the worst for bright kids. Your child has probably become demotivated and bored.

You don't mention if you have a partner, but given your concerns is there no way you can do a few years of private from year 9 onwards at least?

@AlexaShutUp

No. The school i worked at was not selective in any way. They got those results by having small classes with focused education. There were no selective entrance tests. Money was the only deciding factor.

This completely misses the fact that there is a significant degree of self selection going on when wealthy parents who care about education decide to send their dc to private schools.

Fair point. I suppose I also missed out the fact that statistically the children of wealthier parents where the parent has made their money through doing well academically/within their field of work are more likely to be at a higher intelligence level.

However that doesn't always follow through. I've had very tricky parents' evening conversations trying to explain to doctors/lawyers etc why their child really isn't a suitable 11+ candidate. Always hard

However that doesn't always follow through. I've had very tricky parents' evening conversations trying to explain to doctors/lawyers etc why their child really isn't a suitable 11+ candidate. Always hard

Hard indeed, but I guess the point is that even an expensive private school can't fix this. DC will all have differing levels of motivation and ability, as well as differing barriers to learning, and ultimately, both schools and parents have to work with the child in front of them.

@Theendoftheworldisnigh a GP does not get paid the lowest of the low! They are the equivalent of a hospital consultant. The lowest paid doctors are FY1s, straight out of university.

OP your comment "All the posts talking about work at home and tutors are really missing the point that children should be learning at school." really surprises me - especially as you seem very well educated. Of course that is supposed to happen - but if its not happening than its not an ideal plan just to throw your hands up and say oh well its the school's fault nothing to do with me. If you can't help them yourself or can't afford tutors than I would move them to a better school.

The parent may be the child's main educator when it come to social/emotional education but cannot possibly be their main academic educator.

And this is the problem-too many parents think the school should do everything when in fact, numerous studies and research have shown that children do better when they also learn at home with the parents-building on what they are doing in school. Somewhere between 75% and 85% of a child’s waking hours are spent outside school after all.

It may well shock some people but way more private school pupils are also privately tutored outside of school and/or have very involved parents, than those in state schools and ironically, usually by state school teachers trying to increase their pay after years of pay freezes. This only widens the gap by stealth and can hide the true value of paying for education (remember the parent suing their son’s private school a few years ago after awful exam results, whilst admitting they had done nothing at home in all that time?)

This isn’t to say that no learning should take place at school and it’s all down to the parent(s) but I highly doubt no learning has taken place in the last 4 years in the OP’s school and looking up the National Curriculum for each of the Years the OP’s children are in and then requesting to talk to their teachers would be the first step to having everyone happy in this scenario (including getting the DD to start to enjoy learning at home too)

www.parentkind.org.uk/For-Schools/Why-parents-matter

warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/ces/staff/demitra_hartas/parent_herald_20th_april_2016_-_childrens_future_education_aspirations.pdf

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/state-school-pupils-private-tuition-risen-third-a7231406.html

www.suttontrust.com/our-research/private-tuition-polling-2019/

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09243453.2020.1693487

Being a to mum to 3 primary school dc, I sympathise your frustration and dilemma. My kids are in state school. It is rated outstanding and lots of parents will agree. If your dc ability falls in the average or below average category, then their need wi be met, if your dc is exceptionally bright and far exceeding their peers, then most likely they will be left in their own as there is no incentive to focus on one student when more worthwhile efforts can be made to push up the overall standard.
There are however difference between different schools, some are more academically focused than others.
The lock down opened our eyes to the vast difference in terms of the learning support provided by different schools. My kids school did the bare minimum I.e. just a curriculum sheet for the week and some links for us to get on with it, some of my friends' dc school set daily activities and platform to submit homework and get feedback, the best one is a small village school which gives face to face teaching over zoom, and yes, all are state schools.
So if you do some searching and asking around, you many be able to find one that meet your needs more.