To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

@GADDay

Such bias against private schooling on this thread.

The simple fact is that outcomes in private schools are better. Yes, as a parent you are buying an outcome. I don't get why that is so abhorrent.

Wanting the best outcome for your child is a perfectly valid choice. If you can afford it, why not? In OPs case she can't afford it but it is still a legitimate preference.

And one of the reasons private schools have ‘better outcomes’is that they don’t put children forward for exams if they don’t think they will ace them! I went to boarding school and lots of my peers were persuaded that 6th form or certain exams weren’t for them. That way they didn’t attempt a-levels and fail bringing down the stars!

Another reason so that generally people that send thier kids to private school either value education (do also help at home) or the kids are bright enough to get a scholarship. No-one is sending the failing at everything kid to private school (or if they do they don’t last long unless form a very rich/well known family!!)

@AlexaShutUp

Oh, and I pity the poor kids who fail to achieve the outcomes that their parents believe they have "bought" by sending them to a private school. Who on earth would want to put that kind of pressure on a child?

No wonder some private school parents are so up in arms on the other thread about universities giving contextual offers to children from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. They are mistakenly under the impression that they had already purchased their child's entitlement to a top university place when they handed over the school fees!

Lol. We don't need your pity. My children are perfectly happy and they work hard. They are not pressured but they are learning that work ethic is a thing.

They know their education is a privilege. I won't apologise for our choices. For us, and statistically (looking at results) private schooling is better.

I will challenge that all private schools massage the numbers. My children go to a non selective grammar. EVERYBODY has to sit exams - all of them (the system in Aus is different).

Yes how wonderful that you're able to buy your kids that advantage.

I agree. It's our choice and we are happy wity it.

I wonder if people think that private school students just sit and file their nails all day long?

These kids work extremely hard for these outcomes that we supposedly are buying. They think critically, plan their workload, put in a shitload of effort. It's not handed to them on a plate.

Private school kids don’t work harder than state school kids, come on

That’s why state school kids with, say AAA often do better at Uni than private school kids with AAA

They’ve had to do more independent learning

"The simple fact is that outcomes in private schools are better. "

Sorry, that is said like it is a fact but it really isn't. Read my earlier post. My DDs pee group from prep that went onto private secondary have not as well as she has done at her state secondary.

Not all private schools are great - that is a fact.

They do work hard. I don't feel the need to compare though. I never said they work harder.
If you must compare - state school kids here generally go to school 9-3.

Private school kids generally go to school from 7am-5pm (school + extras), then home, dinner and another couple of hour's work.

In rowing season (14 weeks of the year), DS gets up at 3.50 am 5 days a week, in ADDITION to his academic workload.

The kid is a trojan.

I am off to my day-job. Working extremely hard to cover the $50k of fees. I would not change a thing.

My neighbours girl is so clever and she got into Mensa, if you're kid is 5 years ahead, definitely get her to join Mensa as she will fit in there. Or a grammar school if she is that smart. Other than that we all have the same problem, putting in loads of man hours at home to make sure they are doing as well as they can. School should help but not do all the education, that's what I think, tutors are great if you can afford them, push your kids to realise they have to push themselves. Don't blame though, that's what I tell my kids, blaming people is a path to misery and nothing works out. Find the solution instead. Sorry you're having a tough time.

[quote GADDay]@alexashutup

But how do you know you can achieve better outcomes? Have your children been to a private school? If they haven't, your opinion is biased.

My children have been in both systems. I know which one I prefer and it's not all about blunt measurements. Their education is better in the private school than it was in a state school. It is not all about results (the fact that their schools are top performing with 100% uni admission and >90% high achievers is obviously a plus). They get so much more.

Fantastic music, sport and outdoor education facilities. Meaningful and real pastoral care. An amazing library, clubs, drama, even an observatory. It is worth every penny. I know this because we have experienced both.[/quote]
No, my dd hasn't been to a private school. It would be a waste of money for us. I honestly can't see what outcomes could possibly be any better for my dd. I know loads of people with kids at private schools, and I know their kids too. The outcomes certainly aren't better from what I have observed.

Certainly not exam results, because dd has already done as well as she possibly could have done. Not aspirations, because she already sets her sights about as high as she possibly could. Definitely not confidence, because she is exceptionally confident already. Not extracurricular activities, because she already does her activities to a high level alongside many kids from the private schools who have achieved beyond the level that their schools are able to offer. Not socially, because she already has fabulous social skills and an amazing group of lovely friends. Not work ethic, as she is highly motivated and organised enough to juggle her school work with her many other commitments. Not mental health, because she is positive, resilient and optimistic about her future. So I honestly can't see what private school would have given her that she doesn't already have. Other than fancier buildings and smaller class sizes, neither of which I rate as important.

Maybe your dc have done better at private school than they did at state. That's great, I'm glad that you were able to give them that opportunity. I can see that there might be advantages for those kids who need a bit of extra attention or a bit of an extra push. But you can't make the assumption that all kids would benefit in the same way. For a bright, motivated, outgoing child like mine, there is little to be gained.

@Polkadots2021
The super bright child couldn’t do the 11+ so I assume she’s not as far ahead as op wants.

Kids who want to learn will. Whatever school they’re in.

I was responding to someone who suggested to delay children.
There is no need for anyone to judge my parenting when you don't know all about my life.
My eldest is a one of the kindest person you could meet, has volunteered throughout the pandemic and we have a very good relationship. She is currently in med school in London.
When I said that it was a haze, it did not mean that we just ignored her. We did what was important when she was young - good childcare, fresh food , loving family etc.,
I would strongly suggest that OP's question is answered, advice given and be supportive of each other!

No doubt I'll be blasted for this, but I haven't read the full thread. OP, I don't think you've utterly let down your children because you sent them to a state school. You did what you could at the time.

Much as they should be, not all schools are equal, be they private or state. I am lucky in that there are a lot of state schools all within a 30min walk. You've no idea how much I prayed the council wouldn't allocate us the one horrendous school, which happens to be the one closest to where we live!

If the local high school is that bad, then you really need to think carefully about the options that are available - can your daughter repeat Yr 6 (not great, I admit, but it is an option), can you move to an area where the state secondary is better (I appreciate this may mean applying for a new job and it will mean upheaval for everyone but, again, it is an option), can your daugher get intensive tutoring, resit her exams and get into a grammar (really have no idea of the feasibility of this - would it be possible for her to study hard and apply in year 8?)

It's pointless to rake yourselt over the coals now, as what's done is done. You need to make a practical plan to improve things moving forward.

It's pointless to rake yourselt over the coals now, as what's done is done. You need to make a practical plan to improve things moving forward.

I totally agree with this. What’s done is done OP. Focus on what you can do now.

And I wouldn't necessarily assume she didn't do well at the 11+ just because she was 'coasting'; although I'm sure this played a part. I've heard from loads of people (including teachers), that many parents who want their child to do well in that exam, get them a private tutor at least a few years beforehand. So it's not necessarily that your child isn't as bright, just that she hadn't had the style of questions and answers drummed into her head from the age of 8.

Most kids who pass 11+ receive 2-4 years of private tutoring prior. Although there are some overlaps, the DFE programmes of study for literacy, numeracy etc at KS2 aren't designed to train students to pass the 11+.
The teachers in State primaries are not paid to train children for this exam.
You didn't do your homework here.
If you think your kids are in dire need of extra work, get them on websites like BBCBitesize or be proactive and look up past papers, mark schemes and specimen materials on exam board websites.
There are good, average and bad teachers in both private and state education.
Be careful about playing the blame game and perhaps readjust either your expectations of your kids, who might be doing quite well and do not need to be told they are failing, or readjust your expectations of how a parent can support their kids at home.

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading.

I live in one of the poorest towns in the entire country. Ask of my four children have had the sort of education you are talking about. All of my children are bright apart from the eldest who is more hands on. Three of them have been prefects. All done well in exams etc. My youngest 13yo has just won three saturate awards for best student in her year.

We have prioritised watching documentaries over YouTube. Reading over gaming. We talk together at the table as we eat. We encourage independent activities and nurture their interests. Just today my 13 yo put her own hanging rail up and attached a shelf to the wall. Her teachers rave about her. But as I said my eldest is NOT as bright as her siblings and I do not at any point blame the school for it

Most of us can't afford private school. They'll be fine.

@fantastaballs

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading.

I live in one of the poorest towns in the entire country. Ask of my four children have had the sort of education you are talking about. All of my children are bright apart from the eldest who is more hands on. Three of them have been prefects. All done well in exams etc. My youngest 13yo has just won three saturate awards for best student in her year.

We have prioritised watching documentaries over YouTube. Reading over gaming. We talk together at the table as we eat. We encourage independent activities and nurture their interests. Just today my 13 yo put her own hanging rail up and attached a shelf to the wall. Her teachers rave about her. But as I said my eldest is NOT as bright as her siblings and I do not at any point blame the school for it

Your parenting style sounds like mine! Except that DS who has a brain the size of the planet and graduated from Cambridge has only just at the age of 25 learned how to put shelves up. He rang at the weekend to tell us. And I squealed with pride! So you're ahead of us!

[quote Mymapuddlington]@Polkadots2021
The super bright child couldn’t do the 11+ so I assume she’s not as far ahead as op wants.

Kids who want to learn will. Whatever school they’re in.[/quote]
This is not true. The 11+ requires specific experience. It’s not a simple IQ test.

Went to private school. Not many got the top grades at A level. Majority got Cs and Ds. Not sure a private school education necessarily translates into doing well academically. I know someone who went to private school in the south of England A level grades 2 Ds and an E. For 4k a term at the time 15 years

I'm not anti private school. If I could have afforded to send my three children then I would certainly have considered it. I couldn't though, so they went to our local, fairly good state schools. My eldest has a first class honours degree from a top RG uni and my youngest is now just starting her second year at Cambridge.

My middle daughter is not inclined towards academia but is very happy working locally and largely supporting herself.

Private education is nice if you can, but not disastrous if you can't. A very high percentage of us went through the state school system and have come out quite well.

OP - understand why you are disappointed as all parents want to provide an education to their children which is at least as good as theirs. But please do not let your child think she/he has failed just because they have not got through the second round of a selective grammar school! It's perfectly possible to get fantastic grades at a mediocre comprehensive if your child is bright and especially if they get additional support - tuition etc. It is also possible to have a great career with poor grades (though obviously hard to be a doctor)! Remember your child is not you! Your child will have different dreams and aspirations. Also selective grammars/private schools only get fantastic grades because the children they get in are pretty academic in the first place. You might find that your child shines more and builds up more confidence in a mediocre comprehensive than an outstanding grammar or private school. Think of this as very minor set back rather than something which defines the educational outcomes or trajectory of your child's life!