To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

OP, I think you need to take a step back from all of this and spend some time with both of your children figuring out what they want/need and how you can put it in place for them.

Maybe it’s more educational input from you. Maybe it’s tutors. Maybe it’s moving schools. Maybe they’re just not that academic and would prefer to focus on other things. The emphasis on private school is a red herring. You don’t need private school to grow up to be a happy and fulfilled adult.

[quote MasterGland]@hibbledibble. You have not failed your children by not sending them private.

In my experience, having taught in different schools in both sectors, children with parental support at home perform the best academically. They also tend to behave better in school. One of the worst behaved children I have ever encountered was the child of two headteachers, another of a banker and an academic. All worked long hours and rarely had time to spend with their children. It's the same with working long hours in a warehouse etc.
It is often a contentious issue, and I often get shot down for suggesting this, but could you or your DH go part time? My DH went part time a few years ago and it has been very beneficial.[/quote]
This make me feel so much guilt. There is truth there, so im not shooting you down, but nonetheless it's not satisfying an answer...

When your dd tested as a 12 year old was that her reading age or something else? I'd be dubious about the accuracy of that test if I were you.

Did you get her specialist 11+ help or teach her yourself? The 11+ often assumes knowledge that is ahead of the state school curriculum in maths and they don't teach things like non-verbal reasoning so most parents get or do some test familiarisation ahead of time. Are you in a super selective area where too 2% get a place or do the top 20% go to grammar? Not all private teach 11+ state school material.

It seems like not the school is the problem, but your expectations and attitude. Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor.

OP, I went to a private all girls school and vowed that my DDs would not be subject to the same bitching and overall nonsense. Both went to a high-achieving state secondary school and the oldest is just starting a PhD at Cambridge.

Their primary school was a small village one a few miles away. It was not ideal but I did extra things with them outside of school such as dance lessons and they both learned an instrument. DD1 was able to work with the children in the year above from her final term of Reception. The year above was tiny and she coped fine until she got to y6 when she was a bit bored. However, both mine read voraciously. Our local library was a godsend and we used it a lot. Could you perhaps do something similar? Ours does Booktrack: children read books then are interviewed by the librarian. Each book is written down & they get stickers. When they get to 100 they get a gold-coloured badge and their photo in the paper. That was a massive incentive for DD2. After 100 books, the good reading habits are ingrained.

@sheiselectric

I promise I'm not trying to be an arse...but if you went through private and can't afford to send your kid to private now...then surely you know going to private school isn't the be all and end all.

Children can go to state schools and still go on to have wonderful careers just as many private school students go on to have very average careers.

Exactly! I know a lot of people who went to private school and they are doing no better financially than me or DH who went to state schools and can't afford private school for their own children.

Clearly the thread hasn't gone as the OP wanted seeing as she has abandoned it!

YANBU and we're both teachers. The secondary school I teach in was ahead of the game & I honestly think our students had a good (as possible) experience during lockdown.

An average comprehensive will focus more nowadays on closing the gap - the focus is all on disadvantaged students at the moment.

So students like OPs daughters will be allowed to coast along as they're probably doing ok compared to your average student.

However your definition of good salary is I think skewed - we earn between being us what you do on your own. Your salary is pretty high.

You need to move to an area with an outstanding comprehensive school. I think many Mumsnetters claim "state school is fine" - however some state schools are better than others.

The OP said that the children are too tired to do more work in the evenings, which I wonder about, because if they’re bored and not stretched academically, what is happening to make them so tired?

I also think there's lots to be done in terms of offering your daughters 'cultural capital'.

Make sure they go on days out to interesting places, do some extra curricular like music, sport, drama. Speech and drama gives them lots of confidence.

@RobinPenguins we're not in grammar area either and the medical families I know live here, in Cornwall, in Somerset, Oxford, and Cambridge. All sent private. Across that wide swathe of geographical areas.

[quote shallIswim]@MarshaBradyo a mix. Four are married to part time nurses and OTs; the two female doctors are married to a business owner and management consultant. So I get your point. Tho I'd have thought the nurses brought v little in.
But we don't know do we? Is the OP doing this alone or is there another income? Or have I missed that?
[/quote]
Yes this will help hugely, even a nurse wage v private fees of another is earning

No we don’t know for sure, also op may not say or come back

@darkconfession

Sorry as a dr you can afford the lower end private schools , its not a small wage

I agree. Every doctor I know sends their kids to private school, though my experience of private school for my son was poor.

Every doctor i know aged 50+ sends their child to private school.. Every doctor i know aged under 50 sends their child to state school as they can't afford private fees due to changes in relative pay/taxation and private school fees.

Most of my friends are doctors..as I am. My children are very much at state school, although I am happy with this and as 2 have additional needs are likely to be better supported in the state system than at a private school that doesn't need the hassel of them.

I also opted not to send my bright dd into the grammar system in the neighbouring county as whilst she would probably have got in, the environment would have broken her. She is at our good but very mixed intake local secondary and loving it.

I understand your feelings but that's just how it is these days, economics-wise.

In the 80/90s my now adult children attended London day prep school then boarded at a major public school - fees for the latter were a 'mere' £12,000 pa. All this was reasonably affordable on my secretarial salary and my now-ex's small but successful graphics business. In addition to the super rich and titled, there were lots of small business owners, teachers, doctors and so on. Couples in our bracket nowadays would have no chance of independent education without family help, inheritance etc.

Fees have risen way above the rate of inflation and earnings, you haven't let them down it's just not within your means.

£12,000 each that is.

Your problem is not that you arent able to afford private, it's that state schools do not do enough for those who are above average ability.

They never will while "closing the gap" is something they are measured on.

Why should a doctor delay having child till 30. They should have children when they want to. Period.

Well. No one has a right to children. They're not an accessory to your life to be shoehorned in because you deserve them. No one does. One they're here, their needs are paramount whether you're a scientist or a bus driver. You should have them when you can do the best job of raising them. I don't honestly think that how you brought up your oldest child is the best you could do. No parental involvement to the point that you weren't even listening to reading and have virtually no memory of their childhood? That's not nurturing. I'm just hoping they didn't have additional needs of any kind as perish the thought they would have needed ongoing time and parental input from you. No, I don't applaud your choice to have children when you didn't have time for them, not because I want you to have less but because children's needs are non negotiable.

@Mymapuddlington

Not being horrible but your private school didn’t help you achieve enough money to send them. They’ll get an education if they want to learn, go to college and uni and do what they want if they have the determination to go after it.

Not being horrible but your private school didn’t help you achieve enough money to send them.

Terrible attitude. She's a doctor - thank god people like her are willing to do the job despite it not affording her the possibility of sending her children to private school.

With all due respect you are being completely melodramatic and I say this as someone who went to private school, exceeded academically and my children are at the local state schools.

I do wonder why you’ve chosen to live in the catchment of a poor state school. Provision varies so much.

State schools do not prepare for 11+ and not should they. Either your child is so incredibly bright they will get in regardless (the 5%)or you coach/tutor them relentlessly into passing the tests. It is not like grammar school 30 years ago that you’d know the right bright kids would coast into.

There are plenty of very nice middle class parents using the state system. Fees are obscene in the private sector and frankly I struggle to see the value add.

I do get it OP.

In my local area there are just two excellent state schools (one being a faith school). All the other secondaries are in special measures. There are two thriving private schools.

Parents who can’t afford the private school fees or house prices in the excellent state school catchment area routinely baptise their children in readiness for the faith school.

I would advise getting in tutors in the short term and longer term trying to move into the catchment area of a better secondary.

Such bias against private schooling on this thread.

The simple fact is that outcomes in private schools are better. Yes, as a parent you are buying an outcome. I don't get why that is so abhorrent.

Wanting the best outcome for your child is a perfectly valid choice. If you can afford it, why not? In OPs case she can't afford it but it is still a legitimate preference.

@GADDay

Such bias against private schooling on this thread.

The simple fact is that outcomes in private schools are better. Yes, as a parent you are buying an outcome. I don't get why that is so abhorrent.

Wanting the best outcome for your child is a perfectly valid choice. If you can afford it, why not? In OPs case she can't afford it but it is still a legitimate preference.

Lol, I love how the fact that people thinking private schools aren't necessarily worth it translates in your mind to "bias against private schooling".

It isn't bias, it's just a different assessment of the value of a private education. If you think it's worth it for your kids, then great. If I think it isn't worth it for mine, why would that bother you?

Yes, outcomes at private schools are better, but only if you measure this in a very blunt way. After you've adjusted for demographic factors, parental support etc, the benefit of a private education is far from clear. If you think it's worth spending the money anyway, then go for it. Buy all of the advantages for your child that you think you can. Personally, I'm confident that I can give my child those same advantages without the hefty price tag.

We all want the best outcomes for our children. We just have different ideas about how to get there.

Oh, and I pity the poor kids who fail to achieve the outcomes that their parents believe they have "bought" by sending them to a private school. Who on earth would want to put that kind of pressure on a child?

No wonder some private school parents are so up in arms on the other thread about universities giving contextual offers to children from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. They are mistakenly under the impression that they had already purchased their child's entitlement to a top university place when they handed over the school fees!

@alexashutup

But how do you know you can achieve better outcomes? Have your children been to a private school? If they haven't, your opinion is biased.

My children have been in both systems. I know which one I prefer and it's not all about blunt measurements. Their education is better in the private school than it was in a state school. It is not all about results (the fact that their schools are top performing with 100% uni admission and >90% high achievers is obviously a plus). They get so much more.

Fantastic music, sport and outdoor education facilities. Meaningful and real pastoral care. An amazing library, clubs, drama, even an observatory. It is worth every penny. I know this because we have experienced both.