To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

In the past, the top 5-10% of primary school children were labelled as gifted and talented on a specific programme, with finances allocated specifically to supporting their needs.

In 2010, however, the gifted and talented scheme was dropped, and there are no longer any formal guidelines - even Ofsted now only uses the term ‘most able’ as the term ‘gifted’ was (and still is, I note that you have used it, OP) widely misused and it’s not used in private schools either.

You mention that your eldest child didn’t get through to a second stage of 11+. This is nothing to do with the school because content in the 11+ is not specifically in the National Curriculum and why most children/parents look at tutoring. Did your child have tutoring for the 11+?

I would suggest, going forward, looking at your children’s school website to find its Curriculum Intent and Curriculum Progression and then use that as the basis of the discussion regarding your children. Long term open ended projects for example.

When looking at Secondary school, ask/enquire about their most able policies.

Then look at this thread and realise this is not really a state vs private issue.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lockdown_learning/4355241-Reception-at-our-prep-school-seems-a-little-underwhelming-Normal

@Theendoftheworldisnigh I wasn’t sneering at Consultant wages. What an odd thing to say. I don’t think it’s enough given their years of training and experience.

It’s broadly half Boris Johnson’s salary and considerably more use to the country.

However as the OP isn’t a consultant, it’s irrelevant what consultants earn.

@mag2305 maybe learn to spell "privilege" before you apply for your next teaching job? Just a thought...

Hehe - personally I think doctors are underpaid given the workload. Which is evident in the number of vacancies. Junior Doctors will find it hard to ‘just move’ to different areas because they have to fulfil certain training requirements - some of which can only be done in certain places. Combine that with finding childcare to cover out of hours, is not easy.

I’m sure it can be done, but perhaps at the cost of it taking longer to get to consultant or other trade offs. It’s quite tricky.

Hi Op, I really feel for you. Of course you don't earn enough to send your kids to a private school. Very few doctors do and consultants starting salary is £74k, so not enough either.

What years are they in? I would definitely say get a tutor. You won't have much time for structured teaching yourself.

Ignore all those people who tell you that their state school is is ok and their child is a Nobel Laureate. Some state schools are amazing and some are rubbish. Lots of state school children get extra help from parents and tutors. Successful children aren't always intrinsically more gifted, just more supported I suspect.

Surely a truly gifted and talented child will pass the 11+?

That's regardless of what education teaches because the tests are aptitude ones?

If your DD has coasted then maybe she just doesn't have the drive to do better? Some kids are happy to coast and do worse if pushed.

You haven't failed your children.

Plenary of children in state schools get medical degrees. But it's a tough career and you need a certain inner drive that cannot be taught.

@EinAugenblickBitte Spelling error likely due to feeding my 11 week old baby in the middle of the night whilst typing. Even teachers are human you know!

Butt fanks four yor advise aniways ;)

Ein: That's not nice, we all make spelling and Grammar mistakes ! I make mistakes with every post , similarly on here get regularly harshly judged not for my opinion but for my difficulties with Grammar, Spelling or Punctuality !

I think Drs are fairly rewarded FWIW and I always say so when the BMJ send out surveys etc
No one should really be doing it for the money.
But then I guess I don't really think anyone should be doing their job just for the money.
I think Drs are having children earlier in their careers these days. People used to wait until consultant or at least registrar level but flexible working is more available these days so people can have children whilst still 'SHOs' (in old money) so they have less money at the point they think of sending their children to private school.

I know where you are coming from OP. I went to private school. My DS went to a normal state school, albeit in a good area but it catered for all children. We had been preparing him for grammar but moved to an area where there were none (long story). Anyway while he was doing the prep for 11+ he was suffering from 2+ migraines a week where he had to lie in a dark room for hours. Pretty horrible for him. When we moved those stopped. He was obviously not going to cope with pressure BUT he had great friends at high school, achieved very well at high school and is now at uni studying what he wanted to. I did pay for a tutor to keep him ahead in maths and spent weekends prior to GCSES going through all the books with him.
My DD is now at a local state and just this weekend I applied for a private school. As I worry about the standard of education, but I will retract it as the ongoing costs is just too much. Also I think that big standard high school prepares children for life they should be able to mix with all people
When I left private school to go to the local college I mistakenly thought the teaching would be worse and it really wasn’t
I know friends who have children in private school now suffering sexual abuse from other class mates. It’s not necessarily the perfect experience people think it is
If you are worried can you afford tutors?

*costs are

@hibbledibble. You have not failed your children by not sending them private.

In my experience, having taught in different schools in both sectors, children with parental support at home perform the best academically. They also tend to behave better in school. One of the worst behaved children I have ever encountered was the child of two headteachers, another of a banker and an academic. All worked long hours and rarely had time to spend with their children. It's the same with working long hours in a warehouse etc.
It is often a contentious issue, and I often get shot down for suggesting this, but could you or your DH go part time? My DH went part time a few years ago and it has been very beneficial.

This is not actually a private versus state issue.

This is about one set of parents having an unrealistic plan, that child would definitely get into super selective grammar, with no plan b.

Hibbledibble - I haven't read the whole thread but glanced through and leave without commenting. I was a junior doctor in an acute medical speciality when I had my 2 DD's. This is before the new junior doctor contract. We worked more hours that the current junior doctors do but i admit that the current junior doctor rota and the shift system is worse than ours. Flexible working time in acute fields were frowned upon then!
My husband was a junior doctor as well. We had no family support.
I honestly can't remember how my eldest grew up. I did not realise that book bands existed and only found out about them when one of the mums mentioned that my daughter was getting the top band books ( no idea how she knew it 🤷‍♀️). Most of her primary schooling is like a haze to me. All our main concerns were focused on making sure that we have proper childcare sorted for on calls. There were periods ( research ) when I had to my entire salary to childcare and budget tightly to run a family.
You can't change deanery easily for posters suggesting to change job/ house etc.,
Why should a doctor delay having child till 30. They should have children when they want to. Period.
I would say take a deep breath, look at your priorities and see what is within your reach to change and make things better. Having young children, working shifts, running a house , doing exams , making sure that your assessments and portfolio is up to date can be overwhelming at times. You are definitely not a failure if you are working as a junior doctor , have children, and involved in what they are doing.

If you find that doing flexible working will give enough time to address the issues - do it.
Most consultants in acute specialities would be in their mid thirties when they finish. The average age would be nearer late 30s if it is a hands on field like surgery. I am not a fan of this shift system ( had to do them towards the tail end of my training) and there is no way I would have continued in my speciality doing shifts and having to sort out childcare. I believe it is one of main reason driving young female doctors who want to have family away from acute fields and it is a shame!

Can anyone understand how difficult it is for me with Dyslexia, Dyspraxia and Irlen's. Thus consider the difficulties I had at University writing 3-4000 word essay's for University. these difficulties meant before 'Spellcheck or Grammar' were universally available I spent hours checking dictionaries for correct spelling and Grammar.

Therefore, understand that people with such difficulties will make mistakes, when not working at 100%. I would also like the Grammar Pedants, to acknowledge that difficulties with Spelling and Grammar do not demean a persons point or reason.

I have many (well 6!) friends and family who are doctors and literally every one of them has at some point paid for eduction. To the point that when their offspring went to university (and I started moaning about costs) they were utterly blasé, saying 'well at least it's not as bad as school fees'. Maybe I run with an older bunch, but they will all have started paying at around the age of 40, for up to three children.
But that's besides the point.
I think OP should put the 11+ stuff behind her and more importantly put it behind her child and focus on what can be tweaked. It does sound like there's scope

@shallIswim

I have many (well 6!) friends and family who are doctors and literally every one of them has at some point paid for eduction. To the point that when their offspring went to university (and I started moaning about costs) they were utterly blasé, saying 'well at least it's not as bad as school fees'. Maybe I run with an older bunch, but they will all have started paying at around the age of 40, for up to three children. But that's besides the point. I think OP should put the 11+ stuff behind her and more importantly put it behind her child and focus on what can be tweaked. It does sound like there's scope

Was it just their salary? It sounds like the op doesn’t have another income coming in but can’t be sure

Peewitsandy totally agree.

Where I live many of the consultants that I worked with sent their children to a local primary and secondary

We don’t have grammar schools in this area, most of their DC have gone in to achieve top results and places studying Law/medicine/Dentistry/vet med even without a private education heaven forbid

Please take some responsibility for your own child’s education and stop blaming others, if you’re as well educated as you say then there are a miriad of resources available on line and in real life

Start by asking your colleagues the state route of their children, in my working life new appointments often asked the best location for this before starting

@MarshaBradyo a mix. Four are married to part time nurses and OTs; the two female doctors are married to a business owner and management consultant. So I get your point. Tho I'd have thought the nurses brought v little in.
But we don't know do we? Is the OP doing this alone or is there another income? Or have I missed that?

If private school was so great you’d be a high flyer and able to afford it for your kids or living in catchment for a good school.

@Hesma what are you talking about? The OP is a high flyer, she’s a doctor!

Alot of success is motivation and hard work. The young vet and solicitor in our family went to a very ordinary state secondary. Both were driven to do well. There is alot more to success than trying to buy it.

My kids went to state comps then top universities. It is unfair to blame the school and think that they are the only ones who should be educating your kids- especially when you're educated and can afford to buy in help. Kids are at school 38 weeks a year and have weekends too. A small amount of time quickly builds up into a significant amount.

@peewitsandy absolutely agree. Also, as soon as you declare your profession on mumsnet, i.e. teaching in my case, the spag police come out in force!
spag - spelling, punctuation and grammar

@shallIswim

I have many (well 6!) friends and family who are doctors and literally every one of them has at some point paid for eduction. To the point that when their offspring went to university (and I started moaning about costs) they were utterly blasé, saying 'well at least it's not as bad as school fees'. Maybe I run with an older bunch, but they will all have started paying at around the age of 40, for up to three children. But that's besides the point. I think OP should put the 11+ stuff behind her and more importantly put it behind her child and focus on what can be tweaked. It does sound like there's scope

That’s not my experience, but we’re not in a grammar area so good state comprehensives are available. None of the medics in my family sent their children to private school.