To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

@hibbledibble

If I wanted to educate them myself, I would have home schooled. I had naively thought that they would receive an education at school.

Children only get a small part of their education at school. Home and parents are equally important, starting long before they go to school. It's not a question of state v private at all, it's how much you put in together with what they learn at school. My DC went to local village primary which did not push them at all. We did extension work at home. Then the comp which was in special measures. Then a failing sixth form. They got top grades at GCSE and A level. They would have done less well without our input but they wouldn't have done better at private school because you can't get better than A*.

[quote Innocenta]@Walkaround depending on her specialty, OP has likely had a very-to-exceptionally shitty time during the pandemic. It's not surprising if she is feeling a bit drained or even defeatist. [/quote]
@Innocenta - I didn’t say she has no excuse to be feeling defeatist atm, just that it is unnecessary!

Private/grammar school education doesn’t guarantee success. In my DC1’s uni friendship group(Durham) the two with the highest A level grades went big standard state secondary schools. I am most proud that my DC got there on their own merit, special measures and all. Certainly no expectation from us as neither of us went to university. We encouraged our DC to do their best, do their homework, read etc After that I think it comes down to the child.
We wouldn’t send our child to privacy school anyway, even if we’d had the money!

Don't worry OP, your children are still young and you can fix this.

I think you are getting quite hard time from those keen to tell you how well their own children have done at state - which is great for them but all children and all schools are different. You know your children and you know the schools involved.

If you have no choice on the school (can you move to a better catchment?) you can get a tutor and you can keep a close eye on progress at the school at advocate for you children as needed. There are also usually some good courses you can enrol your children on during the holidays to help them catch up or keep learning. Good luck

Agh typo city!

I have seen quite a few children who come into school in Reception looking like they are really bright- I'm not sure what tests she was testing in several years ahead because schools don't really test until Y2. However, being an early reader or being able to count and reason with numbers early doesn't usually translate into remaining ahead of the others in the long-term. By the time children reach secondary school age things even out a lot.

If a child is 'gifted and talented', they don't need extra help to pass the 11+. Arguably, any child that needs tutoring to get through the 11+ shouldn't be going to a selective grammar anyway, as they aren't really cut out for it. This hits home in around year 9, when they realise that they aren't as 'good' as their peers.

'Nope. I’m not talking only about fucking up on the day. Some super bright children can underperform for a variety of reasons.

You’ve never met the child, thus your ‘feeling’ is 100% tea leaf reading. No good teacher would ever make proclamations on the intelligence of a child they’ve never clapped eyes on. This kind of rigid, black and white thinking is not intelligent approach. (And really just an excuse to stick the boot into the OP).'

But if the child was consistently underperforming, or underperforming for a 'variety of reasons' then it was leaving it very late in the day to address it, surely? 🙄

I'm also not a teacher, thank fuck. I don't know if that's what your barbed 'No good teacher' bit was, as it didn't really make sense.

And I'm not sticking the boot in. I'm just a veteran of these posts where OP's can't resist telling us how bright their kids are and how the schools are 100% to blame for the nosedive.

This doesn't make sense. We've just finished the 11+ process for our eldest and it had absolutely nothing to do with her primary school (which I'd actually say was irrelevant to the process and chances of passing). All of the teaching and preparation was our responsibility to do outside of school. The topics and type of test bear no relation to anything they do at school. So I don't see how you are equating her primary school failing her with her passing the 11+??

*his primary school

Out of interest, those who have ended up doing lots of extension work at home, or having tutors, don’t you resent the extra time that takes out of your child’s free time? I would be uncomfortable thinking that they were finishing a day/week at school and coming home to more work. Seems like a really inefficient use of time.
I’m not talking about the general “life learning” that we all do when maths problems and things pop up in everyday life, or they are reading something for pleasure and also learn from it. But sitting down to workbooks etc. As a kid, no matter how bright, I’d resent that.

I work in a state primary. I see a pattern of bright Reception children that get overtaken by the grafters with lots of home support. Some parents, often professionals with less time, don’t think they need to read and support homework.

OP you need an action plan now to resolve this situation. You have to get your elder DC into a better state secondary school even if it means moving house. Move out of a grammar school area if you can. You seem to be making excuses not to move. Nearly every problem has a solution if you think hard enough.

A more expensive area doesn’t always mean better schools and childcare will be available in most places, even if you have to go to a bit of effort to seek it out.

I assume that some kids from the shit primary school pass the 11 plus? What are their families doing differently? Tutoring? Are their kids simply more able?

For what it’s worth there are shit private primaries as well. My DC attended one but managed to largely overcome being years behind and have both graduated recently and are working in their chosen fields.

I didn’t realise how bad it was until I realised my DD then aged 10, could not get a single question right on a Math SATS test. So don’t blame yourself about the school. She recently graduated with a first in Vet Med and went to a state secondary.

My husband is a consultant surgeon and went to what you would probably describe as a really rough secondary school ! You don’t have to go to private school to succeed but it probably does opens some doors !

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

If a child is 'gifted and talented', they don't need extra help to pass the 11+. Arguably, any child that needs tutoring to get through the 11+ shouldn't be going to a selective grammar anyway, as they aren't really cut out for it. This hits home in around year 9, when they realise that they aren't as 'good' as their peers.

That’s not true. Almost everyone has tutoring for the 11+, therefore even if you “deserve” to get in, you need to get tutoring to prevent someone who “doesn’t deserve” it from getting your place.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

If a child is 'gifted and talented', they don't need extra help to pass the 11+. Arguably, any child that needs tutoring to get through the 11+ shouldn't be going to a selective grammar anyway, as they aren't really cut out for it. This hits home in around year 9, when they realise that they aren't as 'good' as their peers.

That is utter rubbish! Tutoring for the 11+ is so commonplace that nearly all that sit it will have been tutored! So any child going to a Grammar will be among other children who were also tutored so they are not going to be in a minority and find they are doing less well than their peers!

I know a parent who had your attitude- extremely bright child failed the 11 plus because on the day they had no experience of what the test was like and it wasn't what they expected! All children do better if they at least have some practice tests to do and can prepare themselves.

Bright kids can do incredibly well in state schools, so much also depends on home life

OP there seems to be a lot of background missing from your post. In previous posts, you say that your daughter has SEN. Did you manage to get her an EHCP? You surely couldn't expect her to pass an 11+ if she has additional needs without a lot of tutoring? It is not down to her primary to do this for you.

I wish you well in your search for a suitable school but I find it hard to believe you only have one option when living in North London?

@HaveringWavering

Out of interest, those who have ended up doing lots of extension work at home, or having tutors, don’t you resent the extra time that takes out of your child’s free time? I would be uncomfortable thinking that they were finishing a day/week at school and coming home to more work. Seems like a really inefficient use of time. I’m not talking about the general “life learning” that we all do when maths problems and things pop up in everyday life, or they are reading something for pleasure and also learn from it. But sitting down to workbooks etc. As a kid, no matter how bright, I’d resent that.

What do you mean about extension? We never used tutors. But we took an interest and did stuff with our children. Talked to them. Probed their opinions as we would adults. Not formal extension though; never using recommended 'resources', just abundant energy and interest in our DC. And we did it because we enjoyed their company. The result was pleasing but that wasn't the aim. DS was obsessed with Lego and took over the house with Lego 'stories'. We allowed this. He ended up at Cambridge studying stories - or English. DD was obsessed with music and nearly went to music school. We let her gobble up music lessons (maybe you'd call that tutoring tho!).. in the end she studied maths. The music contributed I suppose - lots of counting! It's that soft stuff you need to do when they're young. I didn't realise at the time but look back abs think we accidentally got it right

And I'm not sticking the boot in. I'm just a veteran of these posts where OP's can't resist telling us how bright their kids are and how the schools are 100% to blame for the nosedive.

Of course you are. Why do you care if a poster says their kids are bright/school failing. Seems insecure and resentful. Doesn't bother me.

I went to private school followed by an RG university. I now earn around 15k per year as a self-employed dog walker.

But you know what? I'm happy, I love my job and I have a fantastic work-life balance. Personally, I think my private education was a waste of my parents' money and I'll never every pay back my student loans either.

In hindsight I should never have gone to university but it was just expected of me and I felt pressured to go along with it.

DH dropped out at fourteen and earns about 4x what I do, btw. Private education doesn't guarantee you'll be successful in anything.

did you know there are stats that once student get to uni state school students do better than private because they are use to working independently
you could get private tuition to help if you think they need it & not every child who succeeds in life goes to uni -

panicstations

11+ tests vary between areas.

The CSSE test in Essex is based on Maths and English and aligned to the national curriculum to give a more equal chance to non tutored children. It's pretty normal here to cover all or almost all the content in school.

A bright kid who has paid attention in school and lives in catchment is likely to pass.

Some children need the academic aspirations of a selective/private education. A quiet shy child does not want to be thought of as standing out as "the clever one" in a school class where the main interests are football and love Island (I was like that and my two sons). We all flourished in sixth form which by nature is selective

@Chewbecca ah I see. Fair enough. In our area the maths goes to the end of year 6 (so you need to cover it outside school) and the reasoning wouldn't have been covered in any way at school so needs to be done at home. The English is more aligned with what's done at school I guess. But no child would pass overall relying on school, as they'd fail the reasoning and struggle to score well on the maths