To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

What a load of shite. Not all of your colleagues went to private school I can guarantee. I'm sorry your kids aren't applying themselves at school. Have you addressed their laziness and unwillingness to put in effort?

People suggesting OP move - this isn't a realistic option for a junior doctor. The location of a training post is assigned.

@hibbledibble are you LTFT? It sounds like you aren't as you mention long hours. Which training programme are you in? Radical suggestion but could you take time out of training to focus on re-establishing decent education for the DC? For example, you could locum full time (but hours of your choice) alongside directing their education more assertively, aggressively seeking tutors, etc. My understanding is that locuming is often actually more lucrative than a training post.

@hibbledibble - your post doesn’t quite add up. There is extra funding for children who are behind due to Covid - the National Tutoring Programme. The Government is complicating things at the last minute by changing the criteria and method for subsidising schools, but there is extra funding there. If your child’s school still can’t afford to access anything, or your child is not actually considered sufficiently behind, you could look around for another school that is better off and better run, in the hope there is space elsewhere - it’s what private school parents do when their schools turn out to be crap, after all. You seem to have some weird idea that a state school is a state school, is a state school. Every school of every type is in fact different and children do move between state schools.

I also don’t understand what you mean by the “second round” of the 11+? Is this for state grammar entry in a selective school area, or are you trying to get private school scholarships? I wasn’t aware of most state 11+ entrance exams being several rounds? Where do you live?

As for external tutors - plenty of tutors operate online when unable to work face to face, so I’m not sure why you are so hung up on people who were not able or willing to be physically present, as though they were your only option. Tbh, you sound unnecessarily defeatist. There are things you can do to improve your situation that do not involve sending your children to a private school.

@hibbledibble

If I wanted to educate them myself, I would have home schooled. I had naively thought that they would receive an education at school.

So you are saying that unless a child goes to private school they won’t get an education?

Yabu if you think that the majority of children in this country are not getting and education.

Maybe, just maybe, your babies aren’t quite as bright and driven as you think.

@Walkaround depending on her specialty, OP has likely had a very-to-exceptionally shitty time during the pandemic. It's not surprising if she is feeling a bit drained or even defeatist.

Private schools do not provide the education people think they do. Whilst some will be really good, there are others that fall short of even an average state school. You are not paying for better teaching- you are paying for smaller class sizes and the ability to abandon the National Curriculum- the private prep schools round here simply teach to pass the eleven plus- with children doing rigourouss practise of test papers from early on! That's ok if that's what parents want- but it's not what we chose for our daughter- and she still passed her 11 plus but got a more balanced education to boot at the local state school.

I'm sure most children would do better in private school but most can't afford it so YABU to not realise many kids are in the same boat?

[quote TweetyPieBird]**@Testingprof* For one you no longer require a PGCE to teach in many state schools*

You need a PGCE with QTS or Bachelors of Education (both are qualified teaching degrees) to teach in state schools. Private schools and academies don’t require qualified teachers.[/quote]
An academy is a state school. Hertfordshire has no schools which aren’t an academy so the entirety of the schools in Hertfordshire do not require a qualified teacher. You have just agreed with my statement.

Schools don’t tend to offer G&T now, and there’s no compulsion to hold a register, but they should be providing stretch or differentiated work. (Our primary school got pulled up for this in their Ofsted.)

I’ve had many moments with DD’s school over appropriate stretch, but the trick is to engage with them about ways to support and challenge your DC in ways that cost little or no money. For example - most schools have a Twinkl subs and there are lessons or worksheets with three levels on so they have the appropriate stretch for their level. Also, my DD, having finished her work early, helped to coach those who were finding the maths didn’t click. One of the best ways of cementing learning is explaining something to someone else, and trying to find different ways to do this. Enrichment clubs can also help, or computer assisted learning, if they have, say, scratch coding, languages etc. Oak academy also very useful for us during lockdown - she went straight to the year above’s maths and so didn’t have to sit through the one size fits all online lessons they provided on Google classrooms and teams. School council and additional responsibilities in class help too.

I also know of other primaries where Y5 kids with a talent in an area (eg maths or English) are able to sit in with a Y6 class for the area they need stretch.

Any of that a possibility?

For reference, hubs and I were both state school all the way. Both Oxbridge. Undergrad and postgrad. And I was first person in my family to go to uni. You’re not letting your kids down. It’s entirely possible to flourish in the state sector.

Recent article in local paper, child from bottom ranked school in county starting at St Andrews and older sibling at Cambridge.
Bright kids can do well anywhere, many so called ‘sink’ schools have outstanding teachers and home support can’t be underestimated

If private school was so great you’d be a high flyer and able to afford it for your kids or living in catchment for a good school. Stop blaming the school for everything… if you feel they’re not getting enough then you need to challenge the school on this.
I firmly believe that academic children will succeed in state schools with the right support at home. I went to my local comp, was a straight A student and got a good degree in MFL from a well regarded Uni, it can be done.

I would be conccerned more on her bring the class clown and work on her being more motivated and stop being the class clown. School has been disrupted for ever child not just yours. Being the class clown disrupts the teacher and every child in that class.

@Testingprof I think we are probably in agreement on a lot of these issues- definitely on the creation of sink schools. I think it's shameful in 2021 we are in this position with such disparity across state schools. From years 8-12 (I left after AS levels I went to a very good state secondary myself and had every opportunity there to do well. In year 7 I went to an awful state secondary, who blamed its poor reputation and results on the catchment area. My parents moved me because I was being bullied and the school did very little. Even as a child I noticed a massive difference between the two state schools and it is wrong that there isn't a high standard for all.

This was what I objected to with the pp's post:

I don’t believe a lot of people when they say they can’t afford private school. It’s about priorities. Lots of our friends earn way more than us (we’re both teachers), and have big houses and flash cars but “can’t afford private school” Admittedly, we get half price fees for our 3 kids because I work at the school. But we’ve made other sacrifices that many people are unwilling to make because they have to have a certain lifestyle/ status symbols.

Not believing that lots of people can't afford private schools smacks of a complete lack of awareness of life for many people. Hardworking people who care a lot about their children's education but who won't ever be able to afford private schools. I earn an above average salary although not by much, but I am a single parent and life is incredibly difficult at times. The post did come across as rather morally superior and self righteous over the 'sacrifices' they have made, whilst admitting they get half price fees anyway.

It's not too late at all.

But there is no point blaming it all on your inability to afford private school, it isn't an option so you're going to have to find other solutions. I would:

• move to an area with excellent, non selective secondary schools
• get a tutor to help the underperforming child to catch up
• spend spare time doing fun activities that are actually expanding knowledge too museums and suchlike. And encourage lots and lots of reading at home, an hour before bed etc.

Nope.Yours is the ridiculous response.There is more than adequate provision for a consistently bright child who fucks up on the day: Headteacher's appeal; parental appeal. They examine books, mocks, reports etc. Only a consistently underperforming child won't make it via this route, especially considering the relative easiness of the paper this year. My feeling therefore is that the child in this instance is not all that bright.

Nope. I’m not talking only about fucking up on the day. Some super bright children can underperform for a variety of reasons.

You’ve never met the child, thus your ‘feeling’ is 100% tea leaf reading. No good teacher would ever make proclamations on the intelligence of a child they’ve never clapped eyes on. This kind of rigid, black and white thinking is not intelligent approach. (And really just an excuse to stick the boot into the OP).

I felt like you. Privately educated and upset at the mediocre/sometimes quite rubbish education I felt my kids were getting. However, now they are 13 and 15 and achieving highly in state grammars. I didn't have tutors etc but I did the following if it's useful. Firstly, I found some state schools that I liked. I had to move house, and put up with a long commute but it meant my children moved to a tiny primary in the countryside where they were in year groups of 10, had lots of attention and thrived. Secondly, all the values and approach I had to their learning from early childhood paid off. In a nutshell I prioritised the following: 1) Reading. I bent over backwards to instill a love of reading. My son was not that interested but I kept going. Going to literature festivals, buying books, library every weekend, and really spending hours researching books I thought might appeal to him and reading to him. I finally had a breakthrough aged 8 when he got reading after struggling. By 9 he was reading Dickens on his own on bat whilst still in the crap primary (moved when he was year 5). 2) Discussion and engagement with ideas/culture/curiosity about the world. Going to museums, theatre, discussing current events at the dinner table etc. gives them a broader perspective than from school. 3) Limited/no tv/computer games. Sorry but I think this is really important for pre-primary and primary years. They will find other things to do essentially. Not banning but v v limited and boredom will drive creativity. 4) At primary what they need academically is Maths and English. There are lots of workbooks you can buy they can work through on their own. My daughter loved them and even created a revision timetable for herself as she wanted to pass the eleven plus. My son was not so keen but had decided he preferred the atmosphere in the grammar on open day so was willing to do an hour a day. 5) Music. I'm convinced this has such a positive impact on their wellbeing, creativity and brainpower. We went to the LA music group every Saturday morning. Son eventually gave up his instrument in year 10 but think it did help him. Daughter, 13, now grade 6 in two instruments and getting a lot out of music still. 6) Outdoors. I'm not sporty and kids don't seem to be but we do spend time outdoors every day and are fit and physically active. Time is not the issue here, I was a full-time working Mum, travelling overseas a lot with a 2 hour plus commute. My kids are great and we still love learning and doing things together. I am sure you are a great Mum so don't give up there is a lot within your power to change. Trust your instincts - if you feel it isn't good enough act now.

To everyone say bright kids do well in any school - no, it depends entirely on the personality. Bright and motivated kids, yes, they do fine. Bright but lazy and impressionable kids benefit hugely from private school.

I was bright but lazy and impressionable. I was lucky enough to go to a private school, and ended up doing very well. To this day, I’m convinced that if I went to the local state I would have ended up pregnant and/or on drugs.

The problem ALL parents have is that they have no idea which type of “bright” their kids are, without the benefit of hindsight!

Sorry but your daughter obviously isn’t that gifted and talented if she didn’t pass the 11+ …. a persons future is dependent on the work and effort they put in, not what school they attend.

The difference between an 'outstanding' state school and a so called 'low performing' state school is usually just a matter of catchment. A school in an area where parents are wealthier, house prices are high, parents are professionals, and children are well supported at home is going to look good on paper as children achieve highly. Compred to the school in the area of town where house prices are low or social housing is high, parents are on low incomes, many don't value education, children are unsupported at home and children don't perform well at school. Private schools look like they teach well because children get get good results- in truth, private schools have an intake of children largely from high achieving parents parents with good jobs and good support at home. No wonder they look good!

Try getting a good education for your child who has learning needs at a private school- they won't want you there because his results will pull the school results down!

Well you have several choices.

1. Move to an area with better local state schools.
2. Apply for bursaries, beg borrow & steal (not literally, but are any grandparents willing to help? Etc)
3. Stay where you are & employ a tutor

Any reason why you can’t do number 1?

“ Sorry but your daughter obviously isn’t that gifted and talented if she didn’t pass the 11+ …. a persons future is dependent on the work and effort they put in, not what school they attend.”

This. If you need to pay 15k a year to put your daughter through school to be a success she’s not as gifted as you think.

The vast majority of Russell group graduates are “just” state school. I really don’t understand this obsession with private school in real life.

Children flourish at different stages during education. Iv seen children be top of the class at primary and once they enter secondary/grammar school they completely crumble, through no fault of the school. Perhaps your children are not as bright as you would like to believe. Even if a child attends a "not so academic" school, if they are bright and gifted, they will still learn. Learning is a desire and it's that desire that drives them. If the desire is there, the battle to educate is a lot easier, so even if the school is not up to your standard, you should be able to subsidize your DC education quite easily.

@Hesma

If private school was so great you’d be a high flyer and able to afford it for your kids or living in catchment for a good school. Stop blaming the school for everything… if you feel they’re not getting enough then you need to challenge the school on this. I firmly believe that academic children will succeed in state schools with the right support at home. I went to my local comp, was a straight A student and got a good degree in MFL from a well regarded Uni, it can be done.

I think it's pretty cruel to imply she isn't a high flyer. OP is a junior doctor - it's not like she gets to set her own wage. Anyone who worked in the NHS throughout Covid deserves gratitude, not snark.

It's well known - or at least it should be! - that doctors' pay hasn't even kept pace with inflation.

There seems to be an obsession with 11+ on MN recently. Odd.

@hibbledibble, sorry but maybe your dd isn't that academic after all. Is she an autumn baby? It's a well known fact that children born in autumn have a leg up those who are younger in their school year as at age 4-9, 3-6 months make a huge difference in terms of academic ability. It often evens out from year 4 onwards and the 'super bright' infant kids don't always keep their top spot in the class. And so what? there is more to life.

What is really annoying about the op is that they don't take any responsibility whatsoever, just moan, moan, moan. If you want your kids to seceded academically do something about it.