To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

@wellards - fair enough. Not in the public sector jobs that friends and family do (healthcare, education).

They can offer extra shifts to fill rota gaps and earn extra that way but if they end up in a busy shift that runs over by an hour or two (frequent occurrence) then they can't claim that money back.

You can’t make generalisations about private and state.

There are some lousy private schools and some excellent state schools,

It’s very school, area, student dependent.

As stated, this is in MY experience.

It’s not your experience, it’s your opinion, not quite the same thing.

Hi op, I completely understand your feelings. Never mind dogmatic posters here, private schools is such an emotional subject in this country. Practically yes, you either need to outsource, e.g.tutors, or do it yourself, and the latter is difficult obviously due to you being tired and them. Maybe a weekend tutor? Any chance to change schools and go for an outstanding state one? Not all state schools are equal, some really are very good. Same with private, some are worse indeed than good state schools and exist on hyped up "oh were a year ahead" bs - not true. But completely understandable you want to do best by your kids. Also understand not all of their achievements or there lack of, is down to your choices...They may feel very differently about learning when they start university and change environment for example.

To be honest it must be a bit of a crap school if they can't differentiate the work for her! Every state school is different, there are crappy school, average schools amazing schools. I withdrew my kids from a poorly performing state and moved them to an absolutely amazing primary....in fact i was so shocked at the difference! They have ambition for each child to reach their potential which was something sadly lacking from their old school. Look at other local schools. See what buses go from your village/town/city for secondary. Compare exam results of those schools, ask what they do to support bright children and what they do to encourage children who lack motivation. Ask on the local mumsnet or other local boards for advice for the best non selective state schools near you. There are 6 commutable secondary schools near me and i know everything about them exam results, ethos, local reputation, sen provision, gifted provision, likelyhood of getting in. Do your research and definitely don't presume all state schools are the same!
Lastly take away that initial test which has convinced you your child is gifted....and talk to school and her tutor about where she is now. Alot of children don't actually focus until yr 8/9 when the prospect pf GCSEs or being in a low set looms! You might find her more motivated at that point!

[quote TatianaBis]@LetHimHaveIt

I suspect your child is not as bright as you think. There's no way a prodigiously clever child at 7-8 would've failed three years later

Ridiculous comment. Any bright child can fail any exam at any time.

That’s one of the main objections to the 11+.[/quote]
Nope. Yours is the ridiculous response. There is more than adequate provision for a consistently bright child who fucks up on the day: Headteacher's appeal; parental appeal. They examine books, mocks, reports etc. Only a consistently underperforming child won't make it via this route, especially considering the relative easiness of the paper this year. My feeling therefore is that the child in this instance is not all that bright.

Both my DC went to state schools. Their primary was in specific measurements for a good chunk of it. DC1 had interviews at Oxford uni and is in 3 rd year at Durham doing very well. DC 2 doing well in Y13 applying to university. It’s about the individual and parental input. We didn’t push, no tutors etc

Jenster many teachers wrongly tell parents their dc won't qualify for an ehcp!

It's not easy to get one and schools actively work agaisnt parents on many occasions to get one, they don't know the law and even councils do not know or understand or deliberately mis interpret the law.

It would be fabulous if some induction teaching days could be devoted to this over the whole country.

I don’t understand why you’re being so passive about it. Where your daughter is now isn’t where she has to be for the rest of her education. You have the power to do something about it - move schools, move house, provide tutoring or look at whatever it is in your daughter’s current behaviour or attitude that is holding her back. Hand wringing about “state schools” as if they are all the same is literally crazy.

I'm wondering why a privately-educated aware parent of two bright children hasn't filled in the gaps she is well aware of , and provided the necessary educational booster services herself, at home.

The worse the school, surely the higher the incentive to make sure your children were not disadvantaged by it?

Benji spruced.

You must be thanking your lucky stars every day then that your dc where those kind of regular learners who would learn in most situations? Like my dd 1.

Your so lucky you didn't have to step in like I did and many parents have too with dc who are even slightly outside the learning remit

@TatianaBis

As stated, this is in MY experience.

It’s not your experience, it’s your opinion, not quite the same thing.

👍

Also op, if you can find good tutors then it's probably worth more than private school because even at private school they won't get that amazing 1:1 targeted support

Perhaps being told she is gifted and way above her peers has been a bad thing. Expectations are so high that they can never be attained, so it is easier to do badly and think I could have done better but I just couldn't be bothered. The effort put in should be praised not the achievement of the top grades. If the child is being told they should be achieving x and y because of a test they did when they were 7 or 8, it is ridiculous. The vast majority of day to day people you meet went to state school. I hope you are not putting that chip onto your daughters shoulder that she is doomed to fail and not be supported.

@LetHimHaveIt

Actually many heads don't support the 11+ at all, they work agaisnt it and won't write a word on head teacher support document.

@Sportsnight

I don’t understand why you’re being so passive about it. Where your daughter is now isn’t where she has to be for the rest of her education. You have the power to do something about it - move schools, move house, provide tutoring or look at whatever it is in your daughter’s current behaviour or attitude that is holding her back. Hand wringing about “state schools” as if they are all the same is literally crazy.

Very well said

Not all state schools are equal- sadly. It depends where you live.

Our aren’t great where I live. I tutor/ home school my kids out side of school.

Its shit really. They are very tired and so am I.

You can do it too OP. You’ll have to. If you want them to do well, buy the books, support them in their homework and revision. Some schools aren’t up to scratch and don’t teach kids how to learn let alone what to learn. These schools are struggling financially etc

Getting and retaining a tutor shouldn't be hard now as most of them work online now. I have a friend who makes a living as a tutor, he has as many private school pupils as state. If a private tutor hasn't been any help then you need to take a harder look at what's going on for your DCs.

If you DD has failed 11+ then the provision she needs might not be "gifted and talented". She may have some strengths but she presumably also has weaknesses that aren't being dealt with. You may get more out of the school for both your DDs if you focus on any basic things they can't do.

Like an earlier poster, I'm wondering if your working hours have something to do with it? You can't homeschool, that's fair enough, but do you also have some time to spend with your children to help them manage their homework - not necessarily help them with answers or content, but encouraging them and helping them organise themselves? If your children are have lost motivation the school can't fix that without your help at home. You might get a lot of value out of a relatively short time with them.

Ponty the school that let my dc down is actually very well off, we had an incident and accounts where looked at and it has unusually large cash reserves and it its rated out standing m

@hibbledibble

If I wanted to educate them myself, I would have home schooled. I had naively thought that they would receive an education at school.

But when it became apparent to you that was not the case, you had ample opportunity to fill in the gaps. Basic literacy and numeracy in early years , is something any educated aware concerned parent can address; reading together,, dice and card games ( snakes and ladders, snap, happy families) , all promote simple visual recognition , memory, logic and concentration. Drawing and colouring promotes the hand/brain co-ordination required for writing.

I'm wondering why a privately-educated aware parent of two bright children hasn't filled in the gaps she is well aware of , and provided the necessary educational booster services herself, at home

I think because private education does it all for parents. They don’t need to add much if anything,I would guess. So OP has that expectation of all schools?

I went to a private school and have nothing to show for it. The teachers there were punitive and cruel and it messed me up.

My daughter is at a state school, and is cared for brilliantly by very capable teachers. She is ahead of where she needs to be, and feels safe and supported. The teachers are kind, caring and far far better than my own. I also support her learning from home, which I think makes a big difference in outcomes.

It really isn't about whether the school is private or state, but the ethos of the school and whether the children are recognised and supported as the individuals they are. The main ethos at dd's school is respect. This means from the children towards other children and staff, but also from the staff to the children. It creates a healthy environment where children are able to reach their potential. At my private school we were all scared of the teachers. You can't thrive in that environment.

I think you need to fight to get your children into a good state school, and stop moaning that they can't have a private education as it really isn't necessary.

I started reading this during the night and see the thread has moved on/got a lot longer.

The bottom line is that your annual income is £60k. That isn't enough to educate two children privately from say 7 to 18. It's a simple economic fact.

I don't understand what being a doctor has to do with it. However, as part of the UK's intellectual elite what is even more perplexing is why you didn't have a plan about educating your dc prior to procreation. If there wasn't enough money then why are they not at the local outstanding school, accessed by location, etc? Why have you not made a plan to input the extras required and where is their father and his contribution in all this?

This isn't so much a private school/state school issue but a parenting and life choices issue. I suspect there is also some cognitive dissonance around the innate capability/intellectual capacity of the children.

It is incumbent upon parents to facilitate the best educational outcomes for their dc. I would expect someone intelligent enough to be a Dr to have done that from day dot. If they haven't nobody else or reason is to blame.

@WrapAroundYourDreams

Are there loads of scholarships available for getting into private schools then, *@Testingprof* ?

Still comes back to nothing being done to make sure every child receives an excellent education at every state school regardless of catchment area etc.

And no obviously @Carrotsandbroccoli you can't solve these issues. But the attitudes on this thread are so typically MC Mumsnet, and show very little thought of insight into the lives of most average working class people. All sharp elbows and pride at being able to do 'better' for their children, and judging those who are unable to do the same, or who have different priorities.

Not as many at the moment as there were a few years ago. Although I am only talking about my experience in one specific school were I no longer teach.

I don’t disagree with you but was challenging your post directed at the PP. Sadly most MNetters would not like what I would suggest in terms of schools. You need to break the ability of richer parents being able to choose the school their children will attend which creates sink schools where the attitude towards learning is often broken. I could go on..

@hibbledibble I understand how you feel. My two boys went to a primary school that started out good but ended up going into special measures. My eldest was very self-motivated and passed the 11+. I moved my youngest into private school for years five and six, he was pushed very hard there and his focus and grades went up considerably.

Unfortunately he was so focused on his school work that he didn't have time for the 11+ homework, so he narrowly missed out on a place at the grammar.

We've been very lucky that his state secondary is good quality. However I can see based on my experience of two years of private primary for him, that he would've been pushed more academically at the grammar school or a private secondary. At his state school it isn't cool to learn.

I spent a long time stressing out that I couldn't afford to send him to a private secondary school. But, despite everything I've written here, he is very happy and settled at his state secondary school, he has a much larger local friendship group than his brother did with the grammar school. He may get slightly lower grades, but I believe he is happier there than he would've been at the grammar school and I think he's getting a more balanced experience. As the school is good I don't expect him to massively underachieve or fail.