To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

Its got nothing to do with the fact its a state school if your kids wont buckle down and learn. The main difference is at least youre not paying for the privlege. I know plenty of people from private or boarding schools who have done nothing with it and plenty of people from state school who have done well.

If you feel the school arent supportive enough or have the wrong ethos or the local community culture is not ambitious enough then look at other schools.
How old are your kids?

The London challenge results come down in analysis to extra cash for schools and secondly, communities who really prize education. There is a little local cluster of schools near us in Leicester which are the same. In that case, it's tight-knit communities moving together in the 60s, kids settling nearby and generational support for schools. Research always helps

*Just because ‘the attitudes on here’ rile you, doesn’t mean that I am guilty of those attitudes. I wasn’t talking about people with fewer options than me; I was specifically and only referring to very wealthy people I know, who moan about state school issues (not a lot, but sometimes) and very clearly could afford the fees of a school like ours. That is all.

I do realise I’m very lucky. I do realise that many have no choice. And I think stars school provision is a disgrace. Which is not to say there aren’t some good state schools.*

But that is entirely different is it not, to the situation most people find themselves in? Seems very odd to me for very wealthy people to be complaining about state schools when they have another option. Almost as though perhaps you don't actually know the ins and outs of their finances as much as you think you do... and to be honest, even if they are incredibly wealthy, they should still have the right to expect a good education for their children at a state school and shouldn't have to pay for something better.

Regardless, we agree that people are fortunate if they do indeed have an option, as the vast majority don't. And yes, the attitudes on threads like these do make me roll my eyes- and I'm not saying these are your views but these suggestions are always prevalent nonetheless. Move to a better catchment area. Get a scholarship etc. As though those things are possible for everyone. It's so blinkered.

The only way in which you may let your children down is by allowing them to believe that the only way they will succeed is with private education. What will their excuse be for their life choices? Oh I went to a state school 🙄

So as a privately educated doctor, could you not of afforded to buy a house in a good catchment area for a better school?

@shallIswim

NHS pay is London weighted. But OP doesn’t have to move to London, the SE is a big place.

@RussianSpy101

So as a privately educated doctor, could you not of afforded to buy a house in a good catchment area for a better school?

Not on junior doctor pay.

Please read the thread people.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding

She hasn't been "coasting" if she has failed 11+, has she.

Who said your child at age 7 was academically the level of a 13 year old?
My DC were bright (clean sweeps of A stars at GCSE and A level) but I doubt they were at that level at age 7. They had exceptional curiosity at 7 which helped enormously. But I'm not sure I could have judged that they had the ability of a child nearly twice their age.

@ThanksItHasPockets

Most independent schools offer staff discount of 50-70%

Not for a long while, they haven’t. Anyone receiving that much of a discount will be on an old contract. 30-35% is more typical now, sometimes rising slightly for siblings.

The 4 closest private schools to me (Somerset) offer 50%, 66.7% and 70% (down from 75% last year) reduction. This almost exactly mirrors my experiences teaching in Essex. (I'm not trying to be arsey- this is just my own current experience of teaching in private schools!)

@Carrotsandbroccoli

I don’t believe a lot of people when they say they can’t afford private school. It’s about priorities. Lots of our friends earn way more than us (we’re both teachers), and have big houses and flash cars but “can’t afford private school” Admittedly, we get half price fees for our 3 kids because I work at the school. But we’ve made other sacrifices that many people are unwilling to make because they have to have a certain lifestyle/ status symbols.

@Carrotsandbroccoli

I agree that some people could afford private school if they really wanted to

But many people disagree with the notion of private schools in principle and / or don't consider they offer value for money and / or don't feel their child would benefit

Some people assume that everyone aspires to private school, and it's not the case

I get it op. Due to changing schools early in primary, I went from a high achiever (due to boredom and not given appropriate work) to failing to get into the selective high. As a result, I went to an abysmal state secondary modern and hardly learned a thing and without the tools to know how to study or prepare for exams. I also persuaded myself at a very young age that I was incapable of learning due to the attitude of the head mistress at my primary.

My dd is bright and also lacks confidence in her abilities and is a bit lazy. We aren’t in an area, which take the 11+ and until recently, she went to the local very good comp. The recently appointed head is on a mission to make his school brilliant and the staff are beyond stressed. As a result, dd and a fair portion of the children went from liking school to hating it. On top of this, dd was being bullied by one of her teachers and was a different child in class to the one at home. She started private this year and loves it. My aim is for her to do well. But the most important thing is for her to enjoy being where she is and being treated with dignity and respect.

You’ve had quite a bit of advice on how to tutor your dcs. It is correct to say learning doesn’t just happen in the classroom but in the real world, by going places and doing things with them. Oak National academy is brilliant for lessons from reception to yr13 and there is the complete homeschool curriculum online. Mumsnet recently invited a guest speaker from yourfavouriteteacher.com/ and the interview is on YouTube. The latter is fee paying and they offer more bite size assistance for children preparing for GCSES and it looks good. So something to consider later on.

For now, education wise, I would enquire if there is a way of entering in 12+ or 13+ and see how the school is once your dd is there. If your dd continues to sink / coast, You could plan to get her into private from yr9, yr10 if it is too difficult. Or you could move.

As for your youngest, I would say tutor them for the 11+… unless you’ve moved.

@Puffalicious

Reading this thread there is so much judgement of schools. Schools have teachers that are trained to the same level: there is no difference on how well qualified a teacher is no matter where they teach: they all need a PGCE!

it often amazes me how people don't understand this! There is no difference between trained teachers at private schools and trained teachers in state schools.

It is the same cohort, often the same individuals, in fact, at different times of their careers

So as a privately educated doctor, could you not of afforded to buy a house in a good catchment area for a better school?

This comment doesn't make sense. Private education doesn't make a difference to an NHS wage - it's public sector pay with no bonuses or overtime pay etc.

First World problems

But many people disagree with the notion of private schools in principle and / or don't consider they offer value for money and / or don't feel their child would benefit

Some people assume that everyone aspires to private school, and it's not the case

Yes I didn't go private & have no interest in sending mine there. If I had the spare cash I'd invest it instead.

I'm wondering just how much daily input you could have possibly given your DC? Being a junior doctor I imagine you've worked punishing hours? Who sat with them doing homework during the early primary years? Some DC won't need too much parental input of course, but many will to keep them motivated and on track. My parents left me to it very young as they were busy with work and I became terribly lazy and didn't bother doing homework. I coasted a lot before getting my shit together in my twenties. I ended up with a PhD though so don't despair for your DC just yet!

I do agree with you that the school makes a difference though - I think many posters are being disingenuous suggesting it makes no difference. For example had I been in a better school there's no way I would have gotten away with skipping homework the way I did. Everyone just wanted to have fun at my shitty state school and we were so disruptive and didn't care about academics at all. I went to a private school for my final year and the difference in the school culture was remarkable. Students wanted to succeed and that was infectious, teachers were much more motivated and engaged and we wanted to please them. Environment makes a massive difference and I will be sending my DC to a private secondary if I have to beg, borrow or steal!

@hibbledibble

In terms of difference, class size would be a big one, as well as funding, and facilities. I have been told repeatedly that funding is an issue, which is why no support can be offered. Currently they are in classes in excess of 30 pupils, with barely room to move in the classroom.

What makes you think private schools have more money? some do, but some function on less money per child than states school, hence so many run the far cheaper iGCSES instead of the standard ones

it's public sector pay with no bonuses or overtime pay etc.

I'm not in healthcare but when I was in the private sector I got a bonus, no overtime. Now i'm in the public sector I get no bonus but very generous o/t & I'm better off.

Plenty of private sector jobs do not get any bonus or o/t.

Puffalicious
Reading this thread there is so much judgement of schools. Schools have teachers that are trained to the same level: there is no difference on how well qualified a teacher is no matter where they teach: they all need a PGCE!
it often amazes me how people don't understand this! There is no difference between trained teachers at private schools and trained teachers in state schools.

It is the same cohort, often the same individuals, in fact, at different times of their careers

OP was talking about funding not about the individual teachers who can only do so much with a class of 30+ pupils and little financial support to extend those who are doing well and keep them engaged, support those who are struggling and continue teaching those that are the expected level.

It's hardly surprising that a junior school pupil who may find the work easy and is left to get on with it, will become bored and disruptive and subsequently fall away academically.
I suspect if the OP had phrased the issue differently without mentioning private school she would have had more supportive replies, perhaps even suggesting private school.

A private school can employ teachers that are unqualified. State schools cannot.

Ime, children who are g&t excel in any learning environment, they don't need a 45 minute per week club set up from funding to prove this.

I work in a state school and could think of only a handful of children across the entire school who are truly g&t and for these children, it was evident from reception.

Your definition of g&t may not be the same as a a professional teacher's perspective.

Quite a lot of people who can afford private schools still make the decision to not send their kids there because they think their child wouldn’t benefit, feel the life skills you learn at a state school might be more beneficial for them in life or that it would make little difference to their grades.

One of my friends who I went to state school with was from a wealthy family. I remember being over her house for dinner one night and she asked her parents why they didn’t choose to send her to a private school. They replied something along the lines of “We didn’t think it was worth paying £25,000 a year for 8 years just for you to get 10 As for your GCSEs instead of the 5 As and 5 A’s you did get at your state school”.

Parents know their kids intimately. They know what they are like and how they work. For a lot of parents, it’s simply not worth paying so much just for their kids to achieve a third or half a grade higher. It’s not always a good return on investment in the grand scheme of things. If they have a bright but lazy child, they may lean towards private for the extra push but if they have created a resilient, autonomous, high achieving, hard-working, non-lazy child, they might feel perfectly confident that their child will do just as well in the state sector.

Ime, children who are g&t excel in any learning environment, they don't need a 45 minute per week club set up from funding to prove this.

Rubbish. Entirely depends on the personality of the child and the nature of their intelligence.

My husband and I went to state schools, he’s a medical consultant. A good mate of mine went private and earns the minimum wage.

I think it’s more down to personality and hard work where you get in life rather than where you go to school. But I do get that the privately educated have a horror of the state system, another friend is in the process of losing her job and having no income but is still desperately trying to keep her son in that system, from my perspective it’s totally needless and I don’t get why she’s doing it. But she’s got an absolute horror of the state system, despite the fact the private school she chose is absolutely failing her autistic child and specialist state provision would no doubt be better.

I get why your Etonians want to keep that network for their kids but bog standard private schools I don’t think give any advantage at all.

@TatianaBis

Ime, children who are g&t excel in any learning environment, they don't need a 45 minute per week club set up from funding to prove this.

Rubbish. Entirely depends on the personality of the child and the nature of their intelligence.

As stated, this is in MY experience.