To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

I’ve got lots of sympathy with OP.

I’m a doctor, still in training at the age of 35, and no way can I afford private school fees for two - not even close. It sounds like you’re a single parent too - is that the case? The work is demanding, you’ve got to do courses and exams (fucking hard ones) in your own time, and you must be exhausted.

Despite valuing education, I don’t have enough time and energy to be as good a parent as I want to be, and I constantly feel guilty about that.

Ultimately the motivation has to come from the kids. Did your older one want to get into the grammar school? Is he really disappointed? Maybe this is a wake up call for him, rather than you? I hope he realises the need to become an independent learner if he wants to do well - then he’ll succeed whatever school he’s in.

Firstly I’d love to know where all the bargain basement private schools are that makes everyone so confident the OP could afford fees. You’d be looking at 15k minimum at all the local preps around here with the senior day schools starting at at least 18k and some 30k plus. I do know plenty of doctors who have gone for state primary and then secondary.

I was also going to say the overall numbers of people doing private primary are small (smaller than the average which is skewed by secondary and 6th form in particular. The op is in no way unusual going to a state primary and has a bit of a distorted picture. It is by no means normal or expected to go to private primary. Her particular school might be a bit ineffective but the original post made it sound like her children were the ‘unlucky’ ones whereas they are just very normal.

Yes I agree you've totally let your children down.

Hmm I wonder how all those other children from state school do well and achieve?

@LetHimHaveIt

For a start I don't know what you mean by a failure to progress to the second round. The 11+ is not the FA Cup. It's one exam, the results of which we'll know in October.

I suspect your child is not as bright as you think. There's no way a prodigiously clever child at 7-8 would've failed three years later - especially this year, when it was a notably easier paper. You remind me if a friend who always spoke in hushed tones about the Top Fifty (nationally) school near her having had her daughter in for testing, and suggestions of bursaries and scholarships and programs in America. Imagine my surprise to see 'First Day' photos of her this year, wearing the blazer of the local (shit) comp.

Some areas have first and second round

Also Op why were your children not in keyworker provision? My friends who are doctors and nurses openly admit that their children are at an advantage when it comes to 11 plus this year. In the first lockdown “childcare” provision they sent their children in with practise books which were vaguely facilitated and in the second lockdown they pretty much got 1 to 5/10 attention. I do appreciate this might be a local thing.

I would just find a better state school OP and move if you have to. It’s not true that they are all the same.

Whereabouts are you in country? Northern state schools perform significantly worse than SE.

Children receiving free school meals in London are at least twice as likely to go to university as children receiving free school meals elsewhere in the country.

I would imagine that being a junior doctor is not entirely compatible with family life. OP it seems as if you very much have the attitude that a private school will buy your DC the education that a state school won't. Not necessarily true.

Private school is a group setting too! It’s just a smaller group.
I’m surprised you didn’t explore tutoring options when your eldest was coasting for SIX years! Any decent 11plus tutor would have set her plenty of work. Also, it’s not difficult to set work weekly and monitor over weekends. Plenty of practice books available in the market.
It’s just easy to blame others. But what have YOU done?

Get them a tutor

@LetHimHaveIt

I suspect your child is not as bright as you think. There's no way a prodigiously clever child at 7-8 would've failed three years later

Ridiculous comment. Any bright child can fail any exam at any time.

That’s one of the main objections to the 11+.

@DragonDoor

While 70% of independently educated pupils got As or As, the figure was 39% at state comprehensives.*

Have you ever considered that this disparity could be linked to the socio- economic status of parents and the resources they have?

Yes and also many of the private schools have entrance exams so the only take the very brightest kids anyway! So they take bright kids in, who then do well. Shocker!!! The only fully non selective private school near me has worse results than all the local state schools. And the part selective private school has results the same as the state schools! If this ladies child can't pass the 11 plus, I'd be shocked if she could pass the entrance exams for private. Going back to the tests the primary school did which determined she was working to age 13 level, would any primary school teacher be able to enlighten us what these tests might be? Mine did reading tests which were associated with an age but nothing else! My other thought is that you didn’t get a tutor with proven success at the 11+ ? What have your daughters reports looked like over the years? All exceeded or at expected level?

Diverse I wonder if those tests are still available relevant.

I have two dc both at each end of the scale and whilst dx2 is too busy with her own desires to take on wider information like dd 1 did..

If someone looked into a crystal ball and said one thing of your dc will cure cancer or crack nano technology.. I'd say its dc 2 because she's an amazing problem solver and quick thinker.

@TweetyPieBird you need QTS but the pgce element isn’t compulsory

It sounds as if the school has failed your daughter.
State schools are expected to be able to provide differentiated work, and to cater for more able pupils. She clearly hasn't made the progress she should have done. Funding is not an excuse, teachers should be able to differentiate as a matter of course. It's a standard expectation.
You'd be doing other pupils a favour if you were to flag it up with the governors, although her lack of progress should have been a matter for concern anyway.
I have worked in several schools and all of them track progress, even the worst ones. It is the sort of thing Ofsted look for.
Meanwhile, look around for other schools for both your children if you are not happy with the ones they currently attend. Talk to your daughter about why she didn't do well on the 11+ tests- is it possible she bombed deliberately? If she is very bright and was tutored and you have worked with her at home, she should be expected to get high marks.

You haven’t let them down, OP, because you didn’t have the option to do otherwise. It’s not like you could have educated your kids privately and frittered away the money on crap you didn’t need.

You’ve done what you can with the resources you have.

@TatianaBis

I would just find a better state school OP and move if you have to. It’s not true that they are all the same.

Whereabouts are you in country? Northern state schools perform significantly worse than SE.

Children receiving free school meals in London are at least twice as likely to go to university as children receiving free school meals elsewhere in the country.

Well that could present a rather obvious problem. If moving from the North to SE. Generally you'd need a lot more cash to be able to do so. And if you had that, you could just go private and save yourself the move!

My sisters children go to private school and mine to the local state academy. Whilst her children do get more opportunities than mine in, for example, sports and school trips, they do not get any more academic opportunities except for smaller classes. To put it bluntly, they are no cleverer than mine! My friends daughter went to an Ofsted 'inadequate' school and is now at Oxford. You havnt let your children down

It's very easy to chuck blame around. Your oldest child should have worked harder (and maybe isn't super bright - testing at 4 is pretty irrelevant) and you should have encouraged them. My boy went to state primary (he's not super bright but I helped and encouraged him),. Went to grammar and is now at university.

@hibbledibble

'On entering the local primary', not on starting primary. This is an important distinction, that was admittedly not clear. At age 7, she was academically at the level of a 12-13 year old. Her teachers acknowledged she was incredibly bright, and advanced academically. They also said there was no facility to differentiate work for her. As a result she has made little progress since then.

"no facility to differentiate work for her." In what ways? Surely she's getting extension work or more complex text to read in lessons at the very least? This isn't acceptable. I think you need to be a bit pushy on that front. Nag. Complain about it to heads of department/the head/governor's if necessary. I say this as a teacher myself - staff have a responsibility to meet her needs.

I also want to make the point that teaching isn't necessarily better in independent schools. It sounds like maybe this school isn't great? But that's certainly not true of all state schools. In fact some teaching is actually better.

I also think parents have a huge impact on children's attainment. Get a tutor, get the reading complex novels, take them to museums etc. I'm sure you do all this stuff but it helps more than parents realise.

I'm a teacher in state and funding is a big issue. In my experience if a child is falling behind but doesn't qualify for an EHCP or similar allowing them to have a 1:1 teaching assistant, getting the support they need is extremely hard.
Most of the time it's just one teacher with 30 odd students.
The state system is a bit of a mess. But you haven't failed them. I think that's a bit extreme.

Demonising you for wishing you could go private won't help. I work with schools every day including for the DfE. There is huge variation still - for example, an ambitious school should have found the money over the last year to buy access to the now very good phone based maths and languages apps. Access isn't all about location. Look into moving them if you really feel the school is letting them down and sooner rather than later.

Have you ever considered that this disparity could be linked to the socio- economic status of parents and the resources they have?

That’s a major factor. There are also the problems of mixed ability teaching of large classes which include students whose first language is not English, insufficiently supporter SEN students as well as disruptive study averse students.

It’s also the case that private schools are selective (even the non-academic ones), have smaller classes, higher teacher-student ratio, setting in many subjects, and higher expectations.

If your child was as bright as you think then they could have sailed through the 11 plus with only the minimal amount of tuition to understand how to cope with non verbal tests. This would have been the easiest thing to do. You have not let your children down by sending them to a state school, however you have let them down by not being a supportive and proactive parent. You seem to be very quick to apportion blame to other people, you are the parent , it is your responsibility to do the heavy lifting so either move your children to another school, make the effort to support your children yourself or pay someone else to do it.

@Bunnycat101

Firstly I’d love to know where all the bargain basement private schools are that makes everyone so confident the OP could afford fees. You’d be looking at 15k minimum at all the local preps around here with the senior day schools starting at at least 18k and some 30k plus. I do know plenty of doctors who have gone for state primary and then secondary.

I was also going to say the overall numbers of people doing private primary are small (smaller than the average which is skewed by secondary and 6th form in particular. The op is in no way unusual going to a state primary and has a bit of a distorted picture. It is by no means normal or expected to go to private primary. Her particular school might be a bit ineffective but the original post made it sound like her children were the ‘unlucky’ ones whereas they are just very normal.

Well, there are definitely cheaper private schools than that! They do vary enormously. If you’re in the south east, then I guess it might be different. Tbh I don’t get how people afford anything if they live in the Home Counties. Our house in the midlands would probably be twice the price or more there.

These threads about private schools make me despair.

There is a massive misconception here that if you go to a private school you are going to do well. Whether you go state or private, IMO, the one thing that makes a massive difference is the attitude and drive of the child and in most cases, the parental support they get.

For example, I have 2 DC at private. They both get top grades. They are not the cleverest in the class, but they are the most hard-working. They get awards, one has a double scholarship and they get great grades. They both work their arses off, are ambitious and driven. In contrast, their friends are not doing well, as they don't really enjoy school and don't want to do any work.

You can buy smaller classes, better enrichment opportunities, have a school iPad, be in plays, have great art facilities, think you are in Hogwarts and have nice lunches, but if your DC doesn't have the drive, ambition, and discipline to study, no amount of private school is going to turn them into a highly educated individual.

Also, IME, the teachers at a private school are not always that good. I had many junior school teachers that told me they moved there for an easier life. My DC have been in private since age 2.5 and I have had to teach them to read, take them to extracurricular activities and hobbies and do extra maths with them. Most children need this whether they are in state or private.

I also resent the words and phrases used around these discussions such as "privileged" and "buying an education". I haven't bought anything. No one handed my DC the GCSE's after I paid a lump sum. He worked his arse off when others were out having a good time. He still had to do the same exams as his state peers.