To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

@HaveringWavering

You haven’t mentioned the children’s father in any of your posts. You only talk about your salary. Is he absent and not contributing financially?

If that is the case surely a scholarship would have been an option. Certainly round here a single parent of a very gifted child (several years ahead) would be highly likely to qualify.

🥴 yes, you are being unreasonable.

Second round of the 11+?

I could cite all the people I know who have gone to Oxbridge from state schools but that isn't the only marker of success so I won't. It sounds like you don't like the school and/or your children are feeling disengaged. (Feeling like a failure for not passing the 11+ maybe hasn't helped?) As a doctor, you could presumably afford to move near a better school like many people do.

Dragongirl10

Some of those NVR questions are like rocket science, though. A red herring trail of, what appear to be similarities, but aren't at the end of the day relevant, to be ignored in preference to a similarity which is more significant. Having an experienced tutor alert you to whether an NVR question is to do with symmetry or whatever, can be helpful.

Your kids are just clever, I think.

You haven’t let them down by not affording private school. My advice would be to stop being defeatist about the situation, or apportioning blame to the school or yourself.
Most families can’t afford private schools and neither can you it seems, so try to put that to bed and work with what you have.

If there has been a breakdown of trust with this school, then I would look at moving school or moving house to move school, or accepting a less-than-ideal school but supplementing with tutoring, perhaps finding an out-of-school activity she can get passionate about…. ?music, coding etc.

Is there more to this? Is she generally happy/confident or has the last year or so damaged her confidence/self esteem? Are there signs of anxiety or a difficulty such as adhd going on (as a doctor do you have any friends/contacts who could advise/appraise the situation?)

Is she happy at school? are her friends nice and a good influence? Does she get on with a particular teacher? Is there anyone outside your immediate family who could mentor her and try to get to the heart of why she struggles to engage with school (my dd will talk a lot of things through with her childminder who is an exceptionally wise lady who really “gets” children.) I would echo previous posters about trying to boost their self esteem and enjoyment of learning, pull right back with any discussion about abilities/levels/tests for now, while trying to find enjoyable ways of developing basic skills (educational games - especially ones you can play together - bananagrams, hangman, maths card games, times tables rock stars, books they may really enjoy reading at home).

Are there loads of scholarships available for getting into private schools then, @Testingprof ?

Still comes back to nothing being done to make sure every child receives an excellent education at every state school regardless of catchment area etc.

And no obviously @Carrotsandbroccoli you can't solve these issues. But the attitudes on this thread are so typically MC Mumsnet, and show very little thought of insight into the lives of most average working class people. All sharp elbows and pride at being able to do 'better' for their children, and judging those who are unable to do the same, or who have different priorities.

I think you need to let go the gifted thing.
If they were gifted but "under taught" they would still be settling at the top.
of the pile without trying.
Yours aren't.
You have ordinary children in an ordinary school. Like millions of other ordinary children in ordinary schools. Deal with it.
Its not the schools fault.

@wellards

You could of course afford private. You're hardly on min wage. Plenty of teachers afford private and teachers earn roughly half what doctors earn.

Do they, what schools and areas are these?

Most independent schools offer staff discount of 50-70%

Some of those NVR questions are like rocket science, though Not sure the 11+ exams are VR/NVR based these days. That stopped a fair few years ago to try to make it a more level playing field for all (so the focus of the exams is now just English and maths).

@ViceLikeBlip but you didn't say most teachers afford it because they get discounts & the doctors don't get the same discount so how is that relevant?

@hibbledibble I get it - I underachieved at state school I was really bright was allowed to coast and do nothing I didn’t get my shit together until I was 32 and I have sent my son to private. Thank god I did he is bright but lazy if he was in the state sector he wd of been in lower classes and allowed to get away with coasting like me in his school they’re on him he’s not allowed to coast and it looks like it’s coming right now. It’s terrible as a dr you can’t afford the fees I suppose what I did get from school is that I am a ducker and diver and I have paid one set of school fees at 50% off still £20k though from a mixture of own business car boots don’t laugh before Covid £500 per week on second hand clothes buying selling anything I could. I lost my 3 businesses in Covid and am now a civil servant purely to pay the school fees I get what you’re saying and I feel for you

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

Some of those NVR questions are like rocket science, though Not sure the 11+ exams are VR/NVR based these days. That stopped a fair few years ago to try to make it a more level playing field for all (so the focus of the exams is now just English and maths).

They are still based on these.
There are comprehension sections, verbal sections (cloze, synonyms, antonym, shuffled sentences etc), maths and NVR.

Most independent schools offer staff discount of 50-70%

Not for a long while, they haven’t. Anyone receiving that much of a discount will be on an old contract. 30-35% is more typical now, sometimes rising slightly for siblings.

Op I don't know if all private schools are the same so won't comment on that but..

Like you I did naively trust the school to educate my dc. One was such a competent self starter always get top marks, I put that down to the school!! So it came as a shock when no 2 by year 3 was bottom of the class.

Lock down has literally saved her education via me. The school didn't come close or near and had simply no idea what to do. Very stuck in a rut with little new thinking or strategies. Dd was locked in a phonics hell which was becoming a barrier to her being able to read.
I had to buy the 100 high frequency word flash card and go back to Peter and Jane to actually teach her.

Now she uses a few methods including phonics but initially she didn't get it. Not one size fits all dc.

I've also had to employ tutors, Thankfully the maths tutor did keep going over lock down which was amazing for us and I got dd reading.

My older bright dc however had little contact with her school for three months so she's now been moved to a new school that just gets on with the job in hand and doesn't mess about.

We can see from here how defensive some teachers get when parents intervene but the reality is.. It does need to be more clear... If your dc needs anything slightly out of the norm.. Many schools won't be able to help you... You do need to step in and educate them... Re private at least in most school it's easier to hold them to account.

@WrapAroundYourDreams

Are there loads of scholarships available for getting into private schools then, *@Testingprof* ?

Still comes back to nothing being done to make sure every child receives an excellent education at every state school regardless of catchment area etc.

And no obviously @Carrotsandbroccoli you can't solve these issues. But the attitudes on this thread are so typically MC Mumsnet, and show very little thought of insight into the lives of most average working class people. All sharp elbows and pride at being able to do 'better' for their children, and judging those who are unable to do the same, or who have different priorities.

Just because ‘the attitudes on here’ rile you, doesn’t mean that I am guilty of those attitudes. I wasn’t talking about people with fewer options than me; I was specifically and only referring to very wealthy people I know, who moan about state school issues (not a lot, but sometimes) and very clearly could afford the fees of a school like ours. That is all.

I do realise I’m very lucky. I do realise that many have no choice. And I think stars school provision is a disgrace. Which is not to say there aren’t some good state schools.

Where's Dad in all of this?

@Testingprof For one you no longer require a PGCE to teach in many state schools

You need a PGCE with QTS or Bachelors of Education (both are qualified teaching degrees) to teach in state schools. Private schools and academies don’t require qualified teachers.

Another idea OP- where we live head teachers can appeal grammar school results? Have you discussed this option? There are strict time limits to it so please look into it.
Many excellent tutors have been teaching on zoom throughout the pandemic and you could have accessed those.
I believe this might just be a case of you not being in the know?

I know a heap of doctors who attended state school. You haven't failed at all.

Come on, you're struggling to even get your kids to do their homework from the sounds of it, be honest. And you think you should have home schooled instead? You haven't mentioned a partner, so who exactly would do that? Not like you can take them into work with you.

Really, I think you're the one that has let your kids down, not the school. You say you do everything possible, you're blaming a tutor for not being there during the pandemic, but what about the other years they were there? She still struggled. You're putting too much pressure on her, thinking she is Einstein level intelligent when likely she isn't. Back off, support her properly and stop with the pressure.

If you went to private school and achieved well academically, but didn’t end up getting a job that earned enough for your children to go to private school, isn’t it your school that’s the failure? DH and I are from comprehensive schools but if we chose to send our DC to private school we could, with some sacrifices. We’ve chosen not to though because we know it’s not the be all and end all.

[quote wellards]@ViceLikeBlip but you didn't say most teachers afford it because they get discounts & the doctors don't get the same discount so how is that relevant? [/quote]
I wasn't arguing with you! I was just explaining how some teachers can afford private school when some doctors, who probably earn more, can't afford it

I think the "sharp elbows" is an utterly Vile comment now.

Now I'm three years down the road in trying to help dc 2 and emotionally and mentally and financially drained from tutors and tests and treatments etc.

It's truly Vile.

@RobinPenguins

If you went to private school and achieved well academically, but didn’t end up getting a job that earned enough for your children to go to private school, isn’t it your school that’s the failure? DH and I are from comprehensive schools but if we chose to send our DC to private school we could, with some sacrifices. We’ve chosen not to though because we know it’s not the be all and end all.

What a fatuous post. It’s the NHS payscale that’s the problem here.

She’s a junior doctor. One day she can qualify as a consultant and mix private and NHS work if she likes. That way she could afford private schools.

They are still based on these. There are comprehension sections, verbal sections (cloze, synonyms, antonym, shuffled sentences etc), maths and NVR. Is that for super-selectives? Maybe it varies by area?