To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

Maybe its time to move? If you come to wales and get in catchment there are marvellous state schools. The one near me has a pass rate of 83% and regular sends to Oxbridge. Some schools here have higher pass rates that private schools. See Cardiff High School which has a 99% pass rate. The catchment is small but as a doctor you could trade in your house in the south east and afford one in the catchment. I would get moving now!

@Figgygal
@wellards

Well, no, sending my kids to private school isn’t a status symbol- it’s about my kids’ well-being. If you could see the state school options here, you might get it.

I don’t know exactly what my friends earn, but, for example, the friend who is CEO of a huge company and is building a huge house in the country is definitely earning at least twice our combined salary.

We get a discount- but still paying 1.5 x one normal set of fees. People make their choices - but I do know with certainty some of my friends could afford private if they had, say, a smaller house and mortgage. It’s pretty easy to work out. Some of the same friends also moan about their kids’ schools 🤷‍♀️

I actually feel incredibly sorry for the poor eldest child.

The only thing that has actually happened is that she failed an incredibly tough, competitive exam at the age of 11.

She could be the brightest child in the world and just had a bad day on the day of the exam.

You as a parent put this immense pressure on her, and clearly didn't have a back up plan as you just assumed that she would pass

OPs narrative: Oh no my children are underachieving. It couldn't possibly be their fault for not taking their studies seriously or my fault for not being supportive or instilling good work ethics and values in them. It's definitely everyone else's fault. Specifically those lower class plebs who run state schools.

Sorry your kids had to mingle with the commoners OP. God your attitude is so snobby and entitled.

I am also a doctor who couldn’t afford private school fees. I was widowed when the DDs were babies.
DD1 has an IQ of 166, is autistic and academically gifted.

I sent her to bog standard state schools - the tiny village primary, and the underperforming large comprehensive in the nearest town.
The primary headmistress liaised with the secondary to send high school textbooks along to the school for DD to work on.
She had half an hour a day one-to-one with the head, and worked unassisted on high school maths etc while her 12 classmates did primary work.
DD was then allowed to attend two state high schools simultaneously- luckily they were only 1/4 mile apart - in order to study applied maths, pure maths, computing, physics and French to Advanced Higher level (Scottish roughly equivalent to A level). Each school only offered some of her desired subjects in a non clashing timetable.
She aced straight As and went on to a RG uni for a maths degree.
The lack of private schooling is no bar to a well motivated child with good home support, and teachers in mediocre schools are often enthused to have a gifted child to work with. You need to get the headmistress on board - ours took me to a meeting with the secondary head and support staff, to plan DD’s transfer to high school.

@Carrotsandbroccoli

I don’t believe a lot of people when they say they can’t afford private school. It’s about priorities. Lots of our friends earn way more than us (we’re both teachers), and have big houses and flash cars but “can’t afford private school” Admittedly, we get half price fees for our 3 kids because I work at the school. But we’ve made other sacrifices that many people are unwilling to make because they have to have a certain lifestyle/ status symbols.

So you admit you get massively reduced fees yourself but still want to judge those who don't send their children to private school, and basically accuse them of having their priorities wrong? Lovely

This is such a typically blinkered middle class Mumsnet thread. Apparently everyone should be able to move to a catchment area for excellent state schools, teachers can afford private schools etc. With hardly anyone bothering to discuss the real issue, which is that state schools shouldn't be patchy in their provision; every child should be entitled to an excellent primary and secondary education- at every single school, regardless of catchment areas, state of private etc.

Pretty disgusting that in 2021 this is probably considered idealistic or unreasonable to expect to many on here.

Interestingly, I would have thought that verbal and non-verbal reasoning tests would have been similar in style to the tests your daughter sat at the beginning of primary school - the ones which flagged up her very advanced intellectual capability. There isn't enough content covered by that age for a test to cover complicated maths calculations or advanced grammar. I guess the tests would have been likely to be those designed so that you can do them with no prior preparation ( supposedly) e.g., VR and NVR.

I would keep trying with 11 or 12+ , if you are keen, and she is keen, because surely she must be able to pass with a the help of one of those high-flying tutors who virtually guarantee good results.

It might be worth paying privately for her to sit another IQ test - of the kind which psychologists use to test all areas of reasoning capacity. A very high result might help her to gain a scholarship to a private school. Perhaps it is the speed requirement which messed things up for her in the 11+ exams. She hasn't acquired the stamina, perhaps. She may not be used to working solidly and with intense focus for an hour . IQ test which are shorter, or conducted in a different way, might tell a different story.

You havent failed but I really feel for you - anxiety about schooling/education is a testament the value you place on learning. My suggestion is to cast the net wider for secondary schools, look at results, where children go when they leave - work, training, university..keep on top of how they are doing, encourage them, bring learning into life outside school. Children can do well at state schools but they can also languish, fall by the wayside, get overlooked.

With hardly anyone bothering to discuss the real issue, which is that state schools shouldn't be patchy in their provision; every child should be entitled to an excellent primary and secondary education- at every single school, regardless of catchment areas, state of private etc.

Yep

@Puffalicious

Reading this thread there is so much judgement of schools. Schools have teachers that are trained to the same level: there is no difference on how well qualified a teacher is no matter where they teach: they all need a PGCE!

This shows how little you understand about the education system. For one you no longer require a PGCE to teach in many state schools and it’s down to the digression of the private school if they want a PGCE. I have a PGCE but trained alongside people who use (hopefully used) metrics to differentiate that were not appropriate such as pupil premium. If you were unlucky enough to go the local comprehensive with those teachers teaching your children and they were on pupil premium (there are wide reasons for appearing on this list) your children would not cover the full curriculum because that teacher has decided that they aren’t capable based on a metric designed to ensure that teachers enable these children to access the full curriculum.

There is also the flawed nature of the PGCE, your fate is decided by other teachers and many of them have their own biases. I had many a colleague who actually were very talented teachers be chased out of training by mediocre current teachers.

Although parental engagement in education being the biggest indicators of success for those children, choosing a school that suits your child surely falls under parental engagement.

@Babdoc that sounds like a fantastic head teacher & well done to your dd

I work in Australia so can’t comment on the UK public/private debate but this sounds like a possible presentation of inattentive ADHD to me. Look up the DSM-V criteria, OP.

Inherently smart child so - assuming about 10 years old now? - can coast on ability for the first few years until the academic and executive functioning demand exceeds capability. Maths questions get lengthy and can expose problems with cognitive proficiency and children need to do narrative writing involving planning and organisation.

In a child who is academically underachieving compared with potential who is otherwise in a stable environment is either being taught poorly (which is what the OP thinks) or there is a child-based reason leading to the difficulty.

A “boring” task can actually mean avoidance of a task requiring prolonged concentration.
Being the class clown is her way of drawing attention away of her difficulties. If she was assessed as gifted and genuinely is, executive function/focus difficulties will add to her frustration.

Is she anxious and mentally exhausted at the end of the day?

Urgh I should have proof read. Discretion of the private school not digression, although it does work.

For a start I don't know what you mean by a failure to progress to the second round. The 11+ is not the FA Cup. It's one exam, the results of which we'll know in October.

I suspect your child is not as bright as you think. There's no way a prodigiously clever child at 7-8 would've failed three years later - especially this year, when it was a notably easier paper. You remind me if a friend who always spoke in hushed tones about the Top Fifty (nationally) school near her having had her daughter in for testing, and suggestions of bursaries and scholarships and programs in America. Imagine my surprise to see 'First Day' photos of her this year, wearing the blazer of the local (shit) comp.

Op this is the reality for the vast majority of families, big class sizes not enough resources to accomodate individuals to their full potential, it is very hard to be a teacher!

However you have a head start over most as you are very well educated and are able to fill the gaps, many parents spend every spare minute at weekends and evenings working through resources the cost little, reading, online maths etc.

When my (quite ordinary ) dc were 2 years from the 11 plus stage l was spending 2-3 hours on Saturday mornings doing one on one learning, and 45 minutes on a Sunday morning going over the Saturday work. Aided by hot chocolate and croissant breaks it can be very productive and also quality time.

At that age there is no need to pay for expensive tutors, it is not rocket science just English, Maths and reasoning skills.
I went to a poor comprehensive so am no academic, anyone can do it.
You do sound rather entitled.

I only read until page 4. I think you are getting a hard time OP with some referencing parental failure and you making excuses during Covid despite the fact that you were out on the Frontline and parenting at the same time. I don't agree with those that say the school doesn't make a difference. Yes some will succeed regardless. I went to a bad school and did well but I was one of five out of ninety that did very well. At least twenty of those were bright and would have done better in a different environment. I think a good state school can be as good as private combined with tutoring where required.

If the school is not great, move location to a better school even if this means a longer commute for the next 6 years. More emphasis on school work, motivation and tutoring and you can turn this around. It is not too late. Private is out of reach so focus on what is within reach.

I went to state school and got excellent results and went on to do an honours degree.
My husband and his brother went to statistically the worst school in the city. As for rough, the alumni for their year and every other comprised some murderers.
They both have 1st class honours degrees and PhDs.

You haven’t mentioned the children’s father in any of your posts. You only talk about your salary. Is he absent and not contributing financially?

Reality check; Doctors are well paid.

State schools don't prepare children for 11+, that is something parents have to organise themselves. Private schools do tutor for this.

If your child is Y5, they needed to be accessing Y6 maths to prepare for the 11+ and also practising verbal and non verbal reasoning, which is definitely not taught in state schools.

I don’t know exactly what my friends earn, but, for example, the friend who is CEO of a huge company and is building a huge house in the country is definitely earning at least twice our combined salary.

But earning twice your combined salary doesn't mean taking home twice as much due to how tax works.

Someone earning 200k a year would take home 9.7k a month, a couple earning 50k each would take home a combined income of 6.3k plus receive CB & tax free childcare.

Also that's one example, perhaps your CEO mate isn't so bothered with private school as he wants to give his dc deposits or help in different ways. Doesn't mean he won't moan about the school he's chosen.

People make their choices - but I do know with certainty some of my friends could afford private if they had, say, a smaller house and mortgage.

I'd love a smaller mortgage unfortunately due to my age house prices are crazy so I have no choice.

I mean forgot private school or even a job, if I'd not bothered with uni & bought at property at 18 in the late 90s/early 00s I'd be a multi millionaire now.

@WrapAroundYourDreams

No, I’m not judging you or anyone who can’t afford private school. I’m saying some people I know claim not to be able to afford private school but can afford, say, a £1m home. It’s not rocket science! It makes me a bit sceptical of the ‘can’t afford’ stance, because sometimes it’s not actually true.

But I do agree that state school provision is patchy - of course! I can’t solve that. So I opted out. I think there are some appalling state schools, some of them near me. It is a national scandal, yes. Again - I can’t solve that.

I do get massively reduced fees. I have 3 kids though. I’d need roughly another £700 per month to send 2 kids at full price. Many people I know do have that sort of money.

@WrapAroundYourDreams try reading the post that you quoted. Their friends who earn a lot more then them I image more than double knowing what teachers earn so half fees and double income should even out.

Many of the children I taught when I taught at a private school had a scholarship of some kind and parents were not wealthy by any stretch, I taught two children of vicars (who earn very little). It’s often about knowing how to get scholarships etc which I agree lends itself to only middle class parents benefitting.

Load of rubbish- plenty of children pass the 11 plus from sate schools! If your daughter is as gifted as you claim she would have passed despite her 'poor' education because they don't teach verbal reasoning in schools anyway!

If you were unlucky enough to go the local comprehensive with those teachers teaching your children and they were on pupil premium (there are wide reasons for appearing on this list) your children would not cover the full curriculum because that teacher has decided that they aren’t capable based on a metric designed to ensure that teachers enable these children to access the full curriculum.

This is a really serious allegation and if true needs to be reported to Ofsted. I teach in a comprehensive and we use pupil premium funding to buy resources for eligible students, to pay for them to attend trips and visits, and in some cases to provide additional tuition. There is absolutely no difference in the curriculum that they follow.