To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

OP in the nicest possible way I think you are deluded about how bright your dc actually is. You also seem uninformed about the education system. Private schools are often far inferior to state schools - unregulated, poor quality of staff etc.

You don’t even need to have literal physical involvement with your kids to instill drive and ambition and work ethic in them. Lots of parents have to work long hours to make ends meet and may not have time to sit down with their kids but what they have done is from birth is raised children who value education, learning and are self-autonomous. They have created a culture at home that values hard work, knowledge acquisition, not messing about and the rewards of delayed gratification. Many parents of high achievers don’t need to literally sit down and read with them every night or help them with their homework if they have created a culture whereby the child does this themselves because of their own drive to do well and succeed and takes their learning into their own hands. It’s all about creating a culture at home that’s pro hard-work and pro-self responsibility.

I feel the same @hibbledibble

I did very well at private schools, boarded for years……yes find myself in my 40s with a degree and my wonderful A level results, working in early years earning minimum wage.

My children have zero chance of ever going to private schools and I know they’d do better in smaller classes with children who want to do well. I know they would. Every time they tell me about the hideous things they see from kids at school or the incidents of bullying, a bit of me feels even worse. (Yes I know there are bullies at private schools)

Can you afford a cheaper private school? We’re in the north but have plenty of options at around £3k a term for day pupils. If it was within my reach, I’d gladly move to a smaller house in a cheaper area.

The school haven't failed your children.

The 11 plus isn't part of the curriculum it's not taught you have to prepare for that yourself. Maybe your children are not as bright as you think?

Differentiation is nothing to do with funding I find it hard to believe that the teacher wouldn't differentiate for this reason.

There are many extra things you could have been doing to support your children but you are just focusing on one area, as a doctor you really do have the means to put in lots of extra support compared to some other parents.

I don’t believe a lot of people when they say they can’t afford private school. It’s about priorities. Lots of our friends earn way more than us (we’re both teachers), and have big houses and flash cars but “can’t afford private school” Admittedly, we get half price fees for our 3 kids because I work at the school. But we’ve made other sacrifices that many people are unwilling to make because they have to have a certain lifestyle/ status symbols.

I understand OP I went to private school and I would rather rent, never go on holiday, not own a car, make other sacrifices, to send my DC to private school. That's how strongly I feel about it.

In my experience, the current state school system for bright children is shocking. If they're 'above average' and making expected progress then there's no incentive for schools to push them other than professional pride and quite frankly we don't have room in the day for that. We spend so long trying to get 'below expected' children to 'expected levels' there's nothing left for the bright ones. If I were being very cynical I'd say it was a system devised by elitist, rich people who were getting fed up of state school pupils giving them a run for their money both academically and professionally so those at the top have tried to dumb down the opposition. The state school system is awful at the moment, but those of us in the middle of it our (mostly) trying our best. I'm guessing those in the NHS feel similar.

I understand OP I went to private school and I would rather rent, never go on holiday, not own a car, make other sacrifices, to send my DC to private school. That's how strongly I feel about it.

Why though? I think the security of owning your own home is a huge priority.

OP I went to a state primary and one of the worst state secondary schools in my local authority. I failed my 11 plus. So I went to the local secondary. But I still did well in my GCSEs (all As, A*). Stayed there for 6th form, (that was a mistake) not great results but okay, I got into uni. At uni I got a first class science degree and then went on to do my PhD. Just wanted to show you that it doesn't mean they won't succeed academically later on. I'd get a good and reliable tutor, they still have the potential to be able to do really well.

You needed to provide the tutoring for the 11+, not the school. The fact that the tutors you choose couldn't do it doesn't mean the school would pick that up. It means you find another one. So yes you have failed in respect to that.

Sorry OP but youve obviously messed up your career somewhere unless you’re really young? SIL is a trainee opthamologist, so a junior doc. She earns more than £60k and she’s 33. She had time out to have her child and is now part time. She will be consultant in 3 years…

She also went to a state grammar.

I went to a state school - straight A*s and I earn six figures at 27. I won’t be sending my children to private school though as I think it’s a waste.

Private school really isn’t the be all and end all! I went to really rubbish state school but still did very well academically, did a law degree at a red brick and have a well paying career.
I know a lot of people who attended public and private schools, some of whom might have the grades but were let down by their schools on many other levels.

If your children are naturally gifted this would shine through regardless. Are you sure the level of blame you’re levelling at the school is justified or is some of it disappointment in the fact your kids aren’t necessarily the shining academic lights you were hoping for? Being ahead at 4 might simply indicate faster development at a young age which often is quickly caught up by other kids.

If you hate the school that much, you could move schools/areas. On a GPS wages you could afford tutors, did your child have a tutor for their 11+? I know lots of kids who’ve passed this exam easily from state schools.

Are your kids happy where they are? Academic achievement isn’t everything and I think it’s your fixation on this which is the main issue. Not all kids are A+ which can be difficult for some parents to accept if they were. The important thing is they try as hard as they can and do the best for them.

State schools are not allowed to prepare children for the 11+. That’s one reason why selective education is so damaging for children who come from families that can’t afford private schools or tutors.

Schools have been encouraged to move away from differentiation by setting different work. Partly because it was ineffective for the majority of pupils and partly because the workload it created was unsustainable. Work should be designed in a way that enables pupils to stretch themselves and gain a deeper understanding, rather than accelerate them through stages in the curriculum.

Op I read all your posts but stopped reading the others at p4.

I think you’re getting a hard time. You are allowed to worry about your DC and I think it’s natural to feel guilty.

I’m not going to enter in to the private vs state debate. But I would recommend that you now focus on options. What can you change? What is possible? What can you do now to improve the situation?

You cannot change what’s been done. But clearly you feel strongly that continuing with the same is not the best.

So now it’s time to do something differently.

I also wonder if you are reeling after an incredibly difficult 18 months or so due to the pandemic. No idea what kind of doctor you are but I imagine it’s been a very tough time professionally. So give yourself a bit of a break too.

Hope you can find the space for a solution.

I don't know if others have found that they state school offers effective provision in terms of support for children who are gifted, or need extra academic support?

Yes, my children's state schools (primary and secondary), both of which are perceived locally as "a bit rough", have catered very well for both my very different children. My eldest is gifted in maths and left secondary with four A*s at A level. They are is now at an extremely competitive university, which is renowned for having a very high private school intake and they came in the top few in their year in first year exams.

Younger child struggles with anxiety and attention issues which have been really bad during lockdown and are still impacting her motivation, but they are certainly not letting her coast and I'm confident we can work with them to help her get where she wants to be.

Look around at alternatives - particularly if there are different secondary options you could feasibly access.

Hi OP I really don’t think this is a private school v state school issue. If your daughter is so gifted and intelligent I don’t understand why she is so behind. Most kids who are gifted would not be just relying on school to educate them, they would be contributing to that themselves organically.

I don’t believe in private schooling and work with plenty of doctors at all levels who did not have private schooling.

Why are you only at junior doctor level now? How old are you? I’m assuming there was some delay in starting your training? Most junior doctors in my team are mid 20s. I think you need to tell us a bit more about your circumstances for us to understand the issues. No dad involved? Once you get to consultant level sky is the limit for doctors earning wise. Given you’re a fan of private education I’m sure you’ll also be fine with being a locum rather than salaried. That will give you significant earnings. To the cost of the NHS of course.

I went to a state school and was a straight A student. I went onto get a first class BA Hons degree and Masters. Just organise some extracurricular classes for your eldest. Your youngest may need a tutor if she’s “struggling with basics.”

@Carrotsandbroccoli

I don’t believe a lot of people when they say they can’t afford private school. It’s about priorities. Lots of our friends earn way more than us (we’re both teachers), and have big houses and flash cars but “can’t afford private school” Admittedly, we get half price fees for our 3 kids because I work at the school. But we’ve made other sacrifices that many people are unwilling to make because they have to have a certain lifestyle/ status symbols.

Sounds like your discounted private school is your status symbol to be honest

I hear how frustrated you are with the local schools. Bright children often coast and get a real shock if and when they get to uni and discover that they are not so special. Children who plod along having to work from day one generally get further. It’s up to you to stop complaining within your children’s hearing how awful the schools are, it’s not going to make either of them feel any better.
With your limited time and resources you need to engage your child in an out of school project (I’m not talking about guides, dancing or pony club), that really fires her up. A campaign she can get involved in, a skill she shows some aptitude for, theatre etc. Be enthusiastic , many bright children have low self esteem from feeling ‘other’ from an early age, don’t over praise, be specific. You daughter needs something other than the monotony of school to get her through to adult education.
If your little one is not keeping up then she will need a new tutor. Tutors are like shoes; if they don’t fit you won’t walk far. You might not need a formally trained one, a family friend or relative may be a better fit.
Good luck anyway, you are doing your best, so you are not letting them down.

AnyOldPrion

Yours is a really valid, complete and interesting synopsis of what has happened in UK since WW2

Things have become much harder.

I don’t believe a lot of people when they say they can’t afford private school. It’s about priorities. Lots of our friends earn way more than us (we’re both teachers), and have big houses and flash cars but “can’t afford private school” Admittedly, we get half price fees for our 3 kids because I work at the school. But we’ve made other sacrifices that many people are unwilling to make because they have to have a certain lifestyle/ status symbols.

I often see this on MN & I know lots of people in good jobs but non of us are into "this lifestyle/status symbols" & would struggle to afford private schools. You are talking about a minimum of 20k spare to spend on fees. Someone earning 100k could be taking home around 60k (pension deductions etc), that leaves 40k for housing costs & all other living expenses. I'm not sure cutting out a few holidays will suddenly make it affordable.

As you've just said you get a 50% reduction & the teachers I know aren't on bad salaries, how do you know what they earn?

You need to employ a tutor (less expensive than private school). You also need to focus more on your children, support them not to fall behind and be unable to grasp the basics. Maybe consider getting more sleep rather than posting about this in the early hours of the morning.

To be honest, I know a lot of people who went to private school and the opportunities provided to them haven't put them in a particularly different situation to those who were educated by state schools.

Just a few things, you know you can look at other schools for your children? We have a failing Upper school on the road just off of where we live, but an excellent upper school which is rated about the same as the private schools in our town. Its about 2.5 miles away, but I fought to get DD into that school and I have seen her flourish. In her previous school we were told she struggled with mathematics and literacy, in this new school she's in the highest set for Mathematics and is described as "gifted" and she is supported to achieve the most that she can.

I'd also say as a midway point between standard education and something that's more tailored to your children is online learning - you can actually get home education packages for £20or so a month, and private tutors will make all the difference.

Quelled horreur. I hope you don't feel bad about not doing your weekly shop in Harrods and Fortnums? It appears your expensive education has equipped you with an ability to despise any under achiever - in your eyes- including your own children. And you feel bad about it. It's not a result of State education, look closer to home. And use your expensive and privileged education to help your daughter.

It's the same for most people, unfortunately that is life. Perhaps try a private tutor?