... to say that the Tories are in power indefinitely?

[MrsPeacockInTheLibrary]

I said similar in a political discussion earlier with a friend and they got quite angry and said that was ridiculous.

I had shared some of the reasons I have this opinion: Labour factionalism and infighting (I am a party member and see it entrenched everywhere), Scotland, the split vote on the left, the Tory majority, conservative voting trends in recent years... I just can't see how the Tories will be ousted within at least the next 10-20 years.

I know the old adage about a week in politics... I wish we had more hope of reform in the system, and safe seats did not exist in their current form, but it is what it is.

Sadly OP I agree with you, so it is as much about which Tories run the government. I could find you easily better ones than the current incompetents in the cabinet. I'd only keep Ben Wallace of the present cabinet.

I think people forget just how quickly things can change in politics, particularly when there is a change of leader, or an event.

Johnson has been incredibly lucky. Brexit and covid means he has been able to pose as a wartime PM. That won't last.

He's also been lucky in that Labour aren't nearly quick enough to replace leaders who lose. Corbyn should have quit after the 2017 election. Sure, he increased the Labour vote. He still lost. It was ridiculous that he got another go in 2019. Starmer isn't budging the polls and should go too.

The Tories don't look formidable. All Labour are missing is a leader with some gravitas and the ability to land a few blows on the Tories and enthuse the public. Corbyn was never going to be that man and it looks as if Starmer isn't either. But I'm afraid that he'll hang on until the election and gift the Tories four more years.

Johnson will be out after the Covid war, just like Churchill after WW2.

Labour is having an identity crisis and has a terrible image problem. It needs a major structural overhaul and facelift, just like the shit-for-purpose HoC building and the FPTP system.

Tories on here could maybe start the ball rolling by lobbying their Conservative MPs on PRep. Labour voters will already have done that...

@nancy75

It’s funny that Labour need to get their act together to get a voter but millions are happy to vote for this govt while they merrily drive us to hell in a handcart. Never have I seen such a bunch of self serving, pocket lining, dishonest greedy, incompetent toerags as we have in power now - yet Kier Starmer is the problem?

Yep. I can't say it better then this.

The current government is nothing but a bunch of spoiled sociopaths with their greasy fucking fingers in the coffers.

You only have to look at Labour leadership to know that Tories are safe. Angela Rayner is a gift that keeps giving to the Tories, such a horrible, nasty uninspiring woman.

Thanks all for reminding me of the sleeze etc ... Question - do you think the media played an important part in telling the story and influencing voters. I could be wrong but it feels now that the media props up the Tories regardless of sleaze..

Yes, the media played a part. Because the Sun played an important part in the 1992 election defeat (‘It was The Sun what won it’), Tony Blair bought the support of Rupert Murdoch before the 1997 election.

Maybe this was the most important factor.

Because the Murdoch press supported Labour during the election campaign.

Who would be a good Labour leader? Burnham? Who? I am struggling to think of anyone.

Yes I would agree there. He’s the best one f the bunch IMO, and he comes across really well. But for the moment he’s committed to his role as Mayor, I think.

The only other credible possible candidate is Yvette Cooper, I feel.

If the Labour Party continue down the current pathway to destruction, then yes the Conservative Party will be in power perpetually ! Any democracy that effectively is a one party state is awful.

However, I never hear many people on here moaning about how Scotland is a one party SNP state. Nor do hear anyone condemning South Africa for changing one type of tyranny (Apartheid ) to the ANC state corruption !.

Thus, is it just the thought of perpetual centre right governments that horrify you and not the concept of one party state.

I'd say yes :(
It's a juggernaut that can't be stopped ( not where I live anyway )
People don't look at Labour and see that much they like anymore I'm afraid.

@Iggly

What have the Tories done to show they respect women’s rights?

What have Labour done to respect women's rights?

They brought in the GNC nonsense and have a leader who says that transwomen are the most oppressed minority ever and that it's transphobic to say that only women have cervixes. The Labour Party line is that TWAW. Lastly, there's never been a female leader of the Labour Party.

We've had two female Conservative party prime ministers.

If I'm going to say who does more for women's rights, it's the Conservatives.

And I'm not a member of the Conservative party nor do I vote Conservative. I'm party agnostic - I vote on issues.

Essentially with the "safe" labour seats in Scotland gone for good, I don't see labour forming a government for many, many years.

A huge factor is also the death of heavy industry jobs where organised trade unions and communities made voting labour very very likely. All gone.

When a party thinks that someone like Angela Rayner is suitable for being deputy leader then they are really in the shit.

Angela Rayner is awful, they're keen on her as for a change she isn't from a privileged background, but that doesn't make them by default a relatable and decent politician.

it’s clear starmer is embarrassed by Rayners outspoken opinions. All this playing into the hands of Tory media barons who ignore Tory outbursts

I truly hope you are wrong. With the initial inaction re ordering in PPE and the dodgy dealings that went on after the shortage panic, and innumberable other questionable, and some might suspect, corrupt practices going on, why would anyone vote again for this dreadful government?

And now we have the labour shortage fiasco - HGV drivers, care workers, hospitality workers, agricultural workers, etc. etc. We left the EU over 4 years ago and it appears no contingency plans - eg recruiting drives, free training programmes, etc. - were made to prepare for the inevitable exodus of thousands of EU workers.

As to who would be a good Labour leader - who would be a good Conservative leader. We certainly haven't got one now and I can't think of anyone who has been noticeably competent.

Perhaps some of the excellent mumsnetters should get actively involved in politics (I know some are). Perhaps the change comes from us. I know wishful thinking...

@jewel1968

Perhaps some of the excellent mumsnetters should get actively involved in politics (I know some are). Perhaps the change comes from us. I know wishful thinking...

Easier said than done

@Iggly yeah I know. As I said wishful thinking.

So if a doctor, say, or a solicitor completely messed up your surgery or the exchange and completion of the property you are buying, you would say "I don't feel I can complain if I am not prepared to become a doctor/solicitor myself"?

Politicians vary in their commitment and ability and I don't think they get paid enough for what they do, but they do get paid quite a good salary and some of them do very well when they leave politics because of the contacts they have made and the knowledge of the system that they have. Of course, we have the right to complain if they are making a complete mess of it.

@ellyeth

So if a doctor, say, or a solicitor completely messed up your surgery or the exchange and completion of the property you are buying, you would say "I don't feel I can complain if I am not prepared to become a doctor/solicitor myself"?

Politicians vary in their commitment and ability and I don't think they get paid enough for what they do, but they do get paid quite a good salary and some of them do very well when they leave politics because of the contacts they have made and the knowledge of the system that they have. Of course, we have the right to complain if they are making a complete mess of it.

This is all true, but I don't think it takes into account what has happened to political parties over the last few decades. They have largely stopped being mass movements. Instead they have become vehicles for zealots and the ambitious.

The Tories used to have a membership of 3 million people.

The Labour Party used to encompass the entire trade union movement back when most employees belonged to one.

Millions of people, ordinary, unambitious people, didn't just contribute to politics by voting once every four years and doing nothing more than complaining in the meantime. They were involved at all levels, and this kept parties normal and in touch