... to say that the Tories are in power indefinitely?

[MrsPeacockInTheLibrary]

I said similar in a political discussion earlier with a friend and they got quite angry and said that was ridiculous.

I had shared some of the reasons I have this opinion: Labour factionalism and infighting (I am a party member and see it entrenched everywhere), Scotland, the split vote on the left, the Tory majority, conservative voting trends in recent years... I just can't see how the Tories will be ousted within at least the next 10-20 years.

I know the old adage about a week in politics... I wish we had more hope of reform in the system, and safe seats did not exist in their current form, but it is what it is.

Not many read Manifestos.

I know a woman who worked for the state, now in her 70s who votes every time, mostly she voted Tory.

She said she voted "remain" because she doesn't like BoJo and she thought her money would be safer if we stayed in the EU and said Greece was a one off.

She voted for one PM because they had the same birthday as her.

She voted for many years for whoever she was told to by someone she knew we'll who was into politics because she was too lazy to pay attention and make her own decision.

She would prefer to sit and watch Jeremy Kyle, gossip about people, apply makeup and go to her exercise classes or meet a friend for lunch than read a political Manifesto.

Yes for the simple reason that they aren’t an opposition party anymore! But do they really mind when it seems that Kim Jong Johnson is our leader.

That and the fact they’ve gone way too woke, which no one really cares about but you have to pretend so you don’t get cancelled.

@GlobalForce not many parties actually stick to their manifestos and sometimes they don't add up
Until they are legally binding they are just false promises in many cases

Labour are of no significance these days and unlikely to be for years to come

Elections are won and lost by how those who are centerists vote, sometimes they go slightly left sometimes slightly right your policies. If you want to be elected you have to appeal to the centre you can't win by being either more left or more right than you currently are. The left or Labour at the moment is considered too left by centerists there in lies their problem. All elections ultimately hang on the economy with a smaller amount on nhs and schools everything else is fringe for 90%-95% of the population

When you look a politics since 1900 they've been in power for most times since then barring a bit of Labour popularity in the 60/70's and 90's and it could be argued Blair's Labour wasn't massively "left". So yes, I think you're right sadly. Policies aside, if people can stomach this current and previous cabinet as well as PM who only recently admitted how many kids he has then I can't see how Labour could ever get in. Not that I'm saying they'd be much better, maybe that should be the point of more discussions as well.

FWIW, I think a lot of people with no political or economic background go into politics for the wrong reasons.

Labour need to stop all the woke stuff. They're too Islington, too much identity politics which the traditional working class have ZERO interest in.

I know Starmer is kind of trying to move away from it, but the party is so woke to the bones, he can't unite it.

The idea of safe seats is still there for the Conservatives when looking at the map of the election results over the last twenty-thirty years. My constituency is one of the safest Tory seats in the country.

I agree about Scotland - Labour can't hope to gain a majority without Scotland. And the left in general can't really hope to gain a majority without a ground-breaking, cohesive coalition where they all work together. But of course they won't - on the left the vote remains split across several parties, whereas the Tories have their dominance.

I listened to the News Quiz and someone on there had it right - that half of Labour hates the other half. I have supported various leaders and strategies over the years, and would love to see efforts concentrate on unifying the party. But ultimately Labour can't be all things to all the different factions it needs to attract - converted Tory voters, its own left or centrist or whatever supporters, former (?) Scottish voters from its heartlands. And that is without me mentioning Brexit, the media or the red wall/ working class debates etc.

I genuinely think it is nearly impossible.

I certainly hope so! Labour can fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more!

"...I listened to the News Quiz and someone on there had it right - that half of Labour hates the other half..."

I think one half hates everyone, having had personal experience of them they make Angela Rayner look agreeable and not neurotic in the slightest.

@Shade17

I certainly hope so! Labour can fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more!

Why?

Do you feel proud having a Prime Minister who lies, cheats and is a bully?

I find it appalling that our politicians are not setting a decent example. They don’t deserve to be in charge quite frankly.

@ILookAtTheFloor

Labour need to stop all the woke stuff. They're too Islington, too much identity politics which the traditional working class have ZERO interest in.

I know Starmer is kind of trying to move away from it, but the party is so woke to the bones, he can't unite it.

You see this is the problem. Woke doesn't mean what it's been made to mean. People essentially want Labour to be like a diet Tory.

They are in power indefinitely until Labour have a credible leader with a credible deputy for starters. Starmer whines and wibbles and everytime Rayner opens her gob their credibility plummets further.

I'm not a die hard tory but Labour are just an unconvincing, hapless bunch of embarrassments.

You said 90s were the glory years. The Conservatives were in power for 7 of those so you must be saying the Tories were responsible for them. Labour were in for the 2000s. Apparently you don't class those as glory years. Enough said.
porridge you must have confused me with another poster as I said no such thing.

I wouldn't trust current Labour to run a bath let alone this country, so the conservatives are like choosing the slightly smaller half of a dogshit sandwich, both "halves" would be unpalatable to eat but if you've got to, at least pick the one that is slightly smaller.

It's telling when everyone comes in and says "New Labour" were just Tories in disguise. So what you're saying is the only time Labour can be popular enough to get voted into power in recent years, is if they behave more like Tories, by being more towards the centre rather than being totally raging lefty? Everyone was beating the drum about how Corbyn was the second coming of Christ, and how now the true left would triumph with impunity because it's what the "people" wanted, look how that turned out, eh?

I live in a safe Labour seat in the North East, lived in council housing most of my life, my parents were low earners, I'm in a working class profession, by rights I should be blindly voting Labour like all the other people round here do in perpetuity, but I don't, they don't deserve it, us up here in their famous "red wall" we're just sheep guaranteed their vote so they don't have to do anything meaningful, I live in a neighbouring seat now, but I see my former Labour MP bleating on occasionally on the news, offering nothing of constructive value in what they say, only snide derision and criticisms (sometimes criticisms are valid, but you need to be offering solutions on what your party would do differently, or change to get your message out there to tempt other people to vote for your party nationwide).

Having a deputy leader as odious as Angela Raynor is just the cherry on top of the shit sundae that is; Labour.

When a party supposedly fighting for the working class of Britain spend a disproportionate amount of time focusing on a state in the Middle East at their party conference every single time, I just switch off, I couldn't care any less if Israel bulldozed the entirety of Palestine and turned it into a giant theme park, I care about things that directly effect my day-to-day working and social life, here, in this country.

'The Labour Party needs to gets its act together' is the MN political equivalent of 'Wow. Just wow'. People just pop these platitudes down there as if they're so profound that they need no explanation, when the truth is they don't know what they're fucking talking about. No-one has ever been able to adequately explain what the actually mean by 'Labour needs to get its act together'.

Anyone with any money at all doesn't want to pay more taxes. Those with fuck all think it's aspirational to vote Tory, and lay the entirety of the blame for their lot in life at the door of brown people and the EU.

Interesting question.

I think that, yes, they will be in power for some time yet. Labour are hopeless - Keir Starmer lacks leadership qualities and Angela Rayner's continual self-pity isn't attractive. The LibDems will be lucky to see the inside of 10 Downing Street any time this century while the Greens need to act like grown-ups before they have any chance of being taken seriously.

@ChateauxNeufDePoop's analysis of politics since 1900 is good and rather stark.
If Labour has been rejected so much except when it was Centrist why does it think the country wants to try Socialism?
Only winning and gaining power for less than 20 years out of 120. Would have persuaded most people to change the plan.
Would you expect to sell a machine that failed 75% of the time? How would you go about convincing an investor that it would be a good idea?

Angela's latest wheeze is to adopt central bargaining, industry by industry.
Individual jobs are so varied these days. How would legislation define the work?

Those with fuck all think it's aspirational to vote Tory, and lay the entirety of the blame for their lot in life at the door of brown people and the EU

What utter bollocks.

I grew up in a Labour stronghold - very working class, Northern town, I have lived all over the country and mixed with a wide range of people and I am happy to talk politics with people because I have no allegiance to a party (having grown up seeing how damaging tribal politics can be)

The one thing that has killed support for the Labour Party is the fact that the electorate feels it’s no longer represents working class people - mostly as a result of identity politics and the fact there are very few working class candidates.

People voted Tory because they saw a stable party with MPs who would listen to them. And Boris is bloody good at PR- he got himself round factories, round towns, he connected with people. Whilst Labour was very keen to tell people they didn’t want their vote if they didn’t agree with x stance.

And for the record - working class people are not racist, nor unintelligent or any other of the negative stereotypes which so often crop up on mumsnet.

'I have no allegiance to a party' = When it comes to it, I vote Tory.

Boris is, er, not good at PR. It's remarkably few people who enjoy a good Kermit the Frog gag, in truth.

I enjoyed the rest of your kitchen sink drama, though.

I’m amazed Boris is still in power considering what he has done in his personal AND professional life since being in power.

I seriously don’t understand why he has been able to keep his job.

I won’t vote Labour, LibDem or Greens until they respect women’s rights.

I agree op.
Do they not reach economics in schools and colleges now?
Why do so many voters not understand economic principles?
Anyhow most people are selfish and care primarily for themselves and at a push their very close family.
They see the perceived consequence of voting for a party other than the conservatives; oooh I might have to pay an extra 2 pence in tax to pay for better health care/schools/environmental facilities etc and they think no, I'm not voting for that.
That is a choice but for the lovely God stop bloody moaning about poor quality from the doctor/hospital/council/school/transport etc etc etc.
I am sick and tired of customers saying we should get more staff. No you voted for this so you can experience the level of service you paid for.

I think the main issue is a lot of Scotland used to vote Labour, but now it's been overtaken by the SNP. This makes it almost impossible for Labour to get a majority, the most the might do is a joint government.