... to say that the Tories are in power indefinitely?

[MrsPeacockInTheLibrary]

I said similar in a political discussion earlier with a friend and they got quite angry and said that was ridiculous.

I had shared some of the reasons I have this opinion: Labour factionalism and infighting (I am a party member and see it entrenched everywhere), Scotland, the split vote on the left, the Tory majority, conservative voting trends in recent years... I just can't see how the Tories will be ousted within at least the next 10-20 years.

I know the old adage about a week in politics... I wish we had more hope of reform in the system, and safe seats did not exist in their current form, but it is what it is.

The media will not let a sleaze story lay unused. There are a few knocking around. The media really do operate on the now. It does not matter how many times the government gets knocked back, the media can always build them up again just as soon as the next GE is announced. Yesterday's stories are today's fish and chip wrappers blowing in the wind.

The country was ready for a change when Blair won and he didn’t frighten a lot of normally Tory voters. He also had charisma. Labour is a pile of crap, they speak for the metropolitan elite and are obsessed with identity politics. They’re unelectable.

I don't think people vote for the "best" party, but for the "least bad" party. Until another party convinces us they are not as bad as the Tories, the Tories will remain in power.

One of the biggest changes in recent general elections has been in Scotland. In 2010, the SNP won 6 seats out of 59. Once independence was off the table following the 2014 referendum, it became "safe" to vote SNP, and they won 56 seats in 2015.

@Unfashionable

I’m a former Labour activist, from back in the day when we used to win elections, and I agree. The Tories are now so entrenched & hegemonic in England outside the M25 that it’s impossible to see them losing power in the foreseeable future. If Scotland becomes independent, it’s hard to see them ever losing it.

My old party is completely fucked. Labour was created out of the Trade Union movement to represent the economic interests of working people in Parliament. But that wasn’t enough for the hard Left, which became obsessed with toxic, divisive identity politics in which groups of people, based on religious, national, ethnic, sexual, or whatever other reason they can think of, seek to assert the status of victim and to aggressively compete for special treatment, funding & protection with other ‘marginalised’ groups in the victimhood Olympics. The Trans wars, which so obsess parts of MN being a case in point.

I think a party that represented some of those old Labour values might do quite well.

The question is, will that likely be the Labour Party?

In the election we just had here in Canada one of the interesting moments was when out Conservative Party (which has had a similar trajectory in that they seem to be appealing more to working class voters,) included in their manifesto a number of workers rights that could have come straight out of a Union leaflet.

And for that matter the stuff that Trump talked about that attracted workers votes was hearkening back to old left principles.

The Tories have identified the working class vote as something they need, and they seem to have some motivation to retain it. They are always more politically pragmatic than Labour. If they take up the challenge Labour is going to have a really hard time defining themselves agsinst a Conservatibe Party that's going to bat for workers.

Yes, I'd say they'll get another 15 years in power, at the very least.

Labour seem to be on some sort of suicide mission.

While labour do have significant problems I can't see how anyone can think the tories are better. But clearly most people disagree otherwise they wouldn't win. I dont see anything changing any time soon either. Tories seem to get away with murder and I'm not sure why!

There are many serious problems - NHS, social care for dementia, training for young etc etc But Labour seem to have no answers - Tories are being forced to try to find answers. But labour have none as far as I can see. It's inexplicable to me.

@Spiindoctor

There are many serious problems - NHS, social care for dementia, training for young etc etc But Labour seem to have no answers - Tories are being forced to try to find answers. But labour have none as far as I can see. It's inexplicable to me.

The Tories have had since 2010. Still waiting for the Tories magic plan to sort social care for example - all they’ve come up with is a shit plan to increase national insurance which won’t actually see any money going to social care for years as it’s going to the nhs first.

@Empressofthemundane

I won’t vote Labour, LibDem or Greens until they respect women’s rights.

Thia. The absolute disdain they show for 51% of the population is breathtaking.

What have the Tories done to show they respect women’s rights?

God I love a political row. I miss these! My grandparents spent every day arguing over politics, he was Tory, she labourite. These days they certainly wouldn’t even have got married, they were married over 50 years and screamed at each other daily.
She used to call all torys on the tv fornicating bas*ards.
He used to say she was a silly cow who didn’t know what she was talking about…..or a labour with Tory values.
Brilliant!

Not much. They've only managed to not actively try and remove sex based rights, like labour, libs greens have, who have made a mockery of things put in place to help address the balance of power. (Women's Officers being a particularly galling example, refusal to protect any space from males including rape crisis centres)
So most likely most people who realise what a threat to women's rights their traditional party of choice are, the choices are vote for the party seeking the least damage, or don't vote at all.

Then people will complain that only idiots don't vote.
I'm not voting my, and other women's rights away. Nope.

Actually that's not strictly true. Tories I believe brought in the GRC to avoid same sex marriage. So they're indirectly responsible for men in women's prisons etc.

They show slightly less contempt for their voters though. I can't blame people for voting for a party that don't persistently show how much they actively despise their traditional voting base.

Labour under Blair was electable to the centre ground in away that they haven’t been since.

I don’t think current Labour leadership even care though, they’re much more focused on tying themselves in knots on ideology and identity politics.

@TheKeatingFive

Labour under Blair was electable to the centre ground in away that they haven’t been since.

I don’t think current Labour leadership even care though, they’re much more focused on tying themselves in knots on ideology and identity politics.

They've found a way to be professional virtue signallers. No actual real action required, just #soundbites. Ideal job for them. Why would they give that up to have to do some actual work.

The sole purpose of the Tories is to keep the wealth of the country in the hands of the few. The gulf between the haves and have nots is growing and increasingly entrenched; social mobility is at an all time low; the NI of working people is increasing to protect the assets and unearned income of the wealthy; housing is in crisis; social care is in crisis; the criminal justice system is in crisis; people are living with desperate job, income and housing insecurity; we have the most expensive university fees and, RG aside, unis are churning out grads with no grad-level jobs to go to; the NHS is on its knees; NHS dental treatment is almost non existent. Not since the post-war 1940s has the working class had a greater need for a party that represents its concerns and interests. Rome is ablaze ... and Labour is dicking around over pronouns.

The LP need to rein in Angela Raynor too! Her rants will do nothing to help the cause and I'm not a Tory. It'll just wind everyone up.

OP, I hope you are right.

New labour implemented student fees (altho all the groundwork was done by the Tories), introduced PFIs and abolished miras for homeowners but not for btl landlords - their policies are at the root of a lot of the misery experienced by today's working class

There is a perception that the economy is safer in Tory hands but lots of studies show that there's little difference/labour have the edge

It's true that the working classes will be a tough crowd to win over again ; they were badly let down by the LP for years and the Tories are good at tapping into their insecurities and good at PR. They can be ' Everyman ' when they want to be. Essex was lost to the Tories years ago , I doubt many will be won over by Kier Starmer somehow.

@Iggly

What have the Tories done to show they respect women’s rights?

Absolutely nothing. But they are not trying to erode women’s rights. So therefore they get my vote - although I don’t trust them.

If Labour hit a stance of "Tories are one rule for them, one for the rest of us" and hit strong on the Barnard Castle / Carries posh wallpaper / John Lewis being too "cheap" / not isolating when others had to etc, it could cut through. They should be taking this point and hammering it home that the Tories think of themselves as better than the majority. This would work better than "for the many not the few", get the idea out over and over that the Tories don't play by the rules they want you to follow.

But not sure the Labour front bench want to have an eye on the next general election and start laying the ground work that the Tories need to go. They are still playing backstabbing and wanting to control their own party. I want to shake them and say "you can't wait until 6 months before the election to start winning it".

The Tories have had since 2010. Still waiting for the Tories magic plan to sort social care for example - all they’ve come up with is a shit plan to increase national insurance which won’t actually see any money going to social care for years as it’s going to the nhs first.
@Iggly
The Tories have had since 2010. Still waiting for the Tories magic plan to sort social care for example - all they’ve come up with is a shit plan to increase national insurance which won’t actually see any money going to social care for years as it’s going to the nhs first.

And the Labour plans? .......................................wind whistles through empty street..............

But I guess anything could happen that could shift people. The recent petrol problem for example might just might push people away. And if it doesn't maybe something upstream might cause problems.

Something else I noticed is when the media want someone to talk about labour position they often bring on one the young labour people (Owen/Grace/Ash etc ...) and I have a feeling their youth annoys people and allows people to dismiss them.

Whatever you politics I suspect most people think a one party state is not good. Or do they?