... to say that the Tories are in power indefinitely?

[MrsPeacockInTheLibrary]

I said similar in a political discussion earlier with a friend and they got quite angry and said that was ridiculous.

I had shared some of the reasons I have this opinion: Labour factionalism and infighting (I am a party member and see it entrenched everywhere), Scotland, the split vote on the left, the Tory majority, conservative voting trends in recent years... I just can't see how the Tories will be ousted within at least the next 10-20 years.

I know the old adage about a week in politics... I wish we had more hope of reform in the system, and safe seats did not exist in their current form, but it is what it is.

Porridge, firstly Brown didn't run us into debt, it was a global crash. He actually did a decent job in the face of a crisis. Secondly I'm talking about 97 rather than later years.

@womaninatightspot

I feel politically homeless can't vote SNP due to their stance on women. Ditto Lib Dems. Keir Starmer saying he wants single sex spaces for women gives me hope but I await the but of course TWAW and therefore we mean them too. Naturally liberal, leftie,socialist, firmly believe the way to lift people up is education.

This is it in a nutshell for me. Voting nowadays is just a decision regarding which of them is the least shit. I wish there was someone I actually want to vote for.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Porridge, firstly Brown didn't run us into debt, it was a global crash. He actually did a decent job in the face of a crisis. Secondly I'm talking about 97 rather than later years.

No, he didn't. He inherited a country whose finances were on the rise and he spent money that we didn't have and put us in debt so when the crisis hit, we had no cushion.

You said 90s were the glory years. The Conservatives were in power for 7 of those so you must be saying the Tories were responsible for them. Labour were in for the 2000s. Apparently you don't class those as glory years. Enough said.

The Scottish seats that used to be labour helped labour win their last election. Since Scotland seats went to SNP, labour hasn't had a look in. Doubt labour can ever get enough seats again.

@worriedatthemoment we haven't had a socialist govt since thatcher came to power in '79 - thats 42 years

New Labour were nothing but slimy tories in disguise.

The Tories are not in power indefinitely. At the minute the United Kingdom itself is not indefinite, much less a political party lead by Boris Johnson.

I don't think people really put much weight on the personal lives of politicians. They talk about it, and complain, and enjoy doing it, but in the end we all know that the most effective PMs were often pretty crappy in their personal lives, or had other personal flaws.

Now, if they find them annoying, that's another story. They'll vote against annoying. But failing that, it's about what they think the person will do, or not do. Not whether they are married to the person they are shagging.

Anyway, Labour is not really speaking to anyone. They are ideological and many people hate the cancel culture and infighting. They haven't been leftist, in the old fashioned sense, for many years. They are an annoying combination of shilling for global capitalism married to smug moral superiority and identity politics.

And they tell people who disagree with their policies in certain areas not to vote for them. A vote losing strategy, to say the least.

Conservatives are typically pragmatic. You might not like everything they do, but they mainly get on with it. And they are happy for your vote.

Elections are lost, and Labour lost the last election. How can anyone say they are good?

So many people were looking for someone to vote for but I literally could not make out what Labour policy was. The whole Brexit/Corbyn/sit on the fence parade was farcical, and it's not got much better. What are they waiting for? There are a couple of bright spots in the Labour front row but still not trustworthy when it comes to unity.

Choose three strong policies - increase in minimum wage, pick up on planning/environment since that's what's worrying Tory heartlands (focus on making the housing we have, fit to live in), and properly fund secondary education - and run with it.

Something for the young/childless, families and the elderly. Stop even discussing minority issues until they are in a position to do something about them.

@nancy75

It’s funny that Labour need to get their act together to get a voter but millions are happy to vote for this govt while they merrily drive us to hell in a handcart. Never have I seen such a bunch of self serving, pocket lining, dishonest greedy, incompetent toerags as we have in power now - yet Kier Starmer is the problem?

This

@nancy75. Well, yeah, he's the problem because he's not doing his job properly and making big inroads into the Tory vote. We've just come out of a pandemic with one of the highest per capita death rates, food prices are going up, petrol prices are going up - if you can get any that is, shortages in the shops, and nhs waiting lists at an all time high. Surely Starmer should be 10 points in the lead? How low does the country have to go before he starts to make an impact?

And LobsterNapkin is right, I couldn't care less what consenting adults, MPs or anyone else, do behind closed doors. Having affairs is irrelevant to their ability to run a country, judge a public mood or manage a budget.

Not up here in Scotlandshire.

Then again we have our own elected for perpetuity party ..

Honestly if people won’t vote differently after what the Tories have done for the last decade, I give up.

At this point I could put a bow tie on my fucking cat and she’d be more fit to run the country.

I do see a point to what you say.
There is not opposition. Most parties look the same shit unorganized pile of idiots, because they do not have ideologies anymore.
They do not have a plan of how to tackle any issue, and defend that plan. They have all fallen in the hands of statistics and which opinion is more popular, so they get votes.
They are empty shells.

This should be labours time to shine and walk the next election, they won't thought because they've forgotten about the values they were founded on, and are so keen to chase the woke votes they don't give a crap about actually trying to make life better for the average person. Ideally we need a new party to emerge that isn't shit.

Passmeamenuatthetottenham

The Labour Party is riddled with misogyny and politicians who would throw their own granny under the bus if it meant sticking to a particular line. At least the Tories are pretty open about fucking people over. Labour do it under a guise of virtue signalling and 'compassion' when in reality a lot of them are a bunch of self serving arseholes as well.

I never had any time for Rhys Mogg, now I am beginging to have more respect for him than Angela Rayner. I would not vote for either. JRM has basic manners, he admits he is greedy for money, he is honest that Brexit will take 15 to sort out and is happy to defend his opponent who tells the truth, why would anyone have any respect for the shouty, the truth hating gaslighting bully?

@LizzieW1969

No. It felt that way during the Thatcher years, but then under Major it went wrong for them because of sleaze. They then lost spectacularly in 1997, I remember staying up to watch Blair’s election win as a student.

The Tories will implode eventually, it’s just a question of how long it will take. This current crisis could mean it will be sooner than we might have thought earlier this year.

But how much worse can it get? Seriously? John Major was nowhere near as sleazy as Boris Johnson and Matt Handcock - add to that the death toll from Covid, the aftermath of Brexit, they seem to be untouchable. How much worse does it need to get? I want to believe you but we passed 1997 levels of Tory fuck up yeeeeaaaars ago and still here they are.

No, he didn't. He inherited a country whose finances were on the rise and he spent money that we didn't have and put us in debt so when the crisis hit, we had no cushion

Governments issue bonds which help investors such as pension funds and provide the government with cash to invest.

It’s pretty standard economics.

Why did the government bail out banks for gambling? For being reckless?

And why, pray tell, did New Labour have to spend so much money? Because the Tories has run the public sector into the ground.

And they’re doing it again.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Porridge, firstly Brown didn't run us into debt, it was a global crash. He actually did a decent job in the face of a crisis. Secondly I'm talking about 97 rather than later years.

Agree. At the time I was meh about Gordon Brown. I look back now and think he was one of the best. What I wouldn't give to have had him in the driving seat during the pandemic.

@LibrariesGiveUsPower45321

Sadly I think you’re right. What do Labour even stand for these days?

Trans rights.

@Beapot

This should be labours time to shine and walk the next election, they won't thought because they've forgotten about the values they were founded on, and are so keen to chase the woke votes they don't give a crap about actually trying to make life better for the average person. Ideally we need a new party to emerge that isn't shit.

This a million times.

Labour are too busy trying to suck up to Tory voters who will never vote for them. Never.

@Beapot

This should be labours time to shine and walk the next election, they won't thought because they've forgotten about the values they were founded on, and are so keen to chase the woke votes they don't give a crap about actually trying to make life better for the average person. Ideally we need a new party to emerge that isn't shit.

I think maybe we need a new party too. I work with the next generation of voters and their answer to Lab or Con is neither. Obviously Lib Dem are a joke. Maybe another "New Labour" re-brand?

I think maybe we need a new party too. I work with the next generation of voters and their answer to Lab or Con is neither. Obviously Lib Dem are a joke. Maybe another "New Labour" re-brand?

Funnily enough I’ve read a lot of manifestos and even tried to see why people would vote conservative and read background into the history of the party etc. Still don’t get it.

Anyway the party that most resonates with me is the Greens, when reading their manifesto, but sadly their name puts people off and makes people think of lentils etc.

EatYourVegetables - exactly! A few years ago Miliband was unelectable because he pulled a weird face eating a sandwich, now we’re quite happy to vote for a man who cheats on his wives, gives tax payer’s money to his mistress, embarrasses us across the globe & hides in a fridge. How the fuck has he got away with it?

I think you find it was mansion taxes with Milliband.

I don’t think right wingers know where else to go though, that’s the issue. In the Blair days they could safely vote Labour because Blair was obviously a Tory in disguise. Now they have nowhere else to turn, particularly since the fall of UKIP in the wake of Brexit. Sadly we are quite a right leaning country so the tories will inevitably remain in power, despite fucking us all over time and time again.