We fecking told you so. Brexit making us suffer.

[flashbac]

Project Fear you said. Sunlit Uplands you said. Sovereignty you said. Can I buy food and heat my house with Sovereignty? Can I put sovereignty in my car's fuel tank? Can I?

It was common sense that this would happen. Common SENSE.

@IvorHughJarrs

Jesus wept! Is this never going to end? We have had years since that vote and a worldwide pandemic. It is time to move on, stop whingeing and just get on with things regardless of how we voted at the time

we've had years since that vote, but decades and centuries of suffering from it still to come

@cereallover

We are literally the South Park of the world.

Despite everything that made me laugh. It’s true.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@RumblyMumbly you can't compare an island of 67 million to a country of 10
, you have to look at the per capita and we don't have the highest in europe at all ,
Why do people always say this
Other countries have more deaths than us but per capita less as higher population
[/quote]
@worriedatthemoment you do know that the UK doesn't come out a great deal better even using per capita death rate as a measure rather than total number of Covid deaths?

Are you trying to say you think the UK government have done a good job in handling Covid? 136000 dead including health care workers and transport workers who died from lack of PPE.

Pretty much everything this Government has been 'in control' of (and I use that term lightly) has, and continues to be, a shitshow.

Completely agree,Brexit was for racists and stupid people and sadly,there are loads of in this country and they will never admit,they made a mistake.What a shitty country Britain has become in the last 12 years!

Freedom of movement is not for the privileged, it enables workers to travel easily and get paid. Builders, plumbers, care workers, drivers, hospitality, chefs - all travelled across Europe.

Not much more patronising privilege than telling the 'plebs' Tebbit style to 'Get on your bike'.

Radical idea, I know, but we have million+ unemployed. Some can't work for whatever reason but many can and want to.

Thing is the race to the bottom poverty wages, slum housing (displaced far from your community, family, and support networks) living a miserable isolating transient life is really quite shit. It's a basic existence - bare survival, as opposed to living.

Instead of reliance on exploitation of cheap labour (be that UK, Germany, or wherever) the focus should be on creating and maintaining good job opportunities and training where people want to be.

Unless these days having a basic job has become a 'privilege' hmm

That's the consequences of exploitation of cheap labour.

Being able, through freedom of movement, to work in Germany in the 80s gave British workers a way of surviving when there was no hope for them here.

That's the point. They should have had hope here. As I said, there's a world of difference between wanderlust and being forced to leave family, friends, and community support networks out of desperation.

Very glad brexit happened. It has now highlighted a big issue in the haulage industry where drivers were being treated like crap. Poor facilities and working conditions.

That's why there's a shortage, not brexit or COVID. It's to do with it being a profession that no one wants to join!

Those who voted for Brexit were sold a pup. That is despite the fact that SOME researched the issue and decided to vote to leave the EU. Fine.

Unfortunately the media in UK ran the election and people bought the pup hook line and sinker. However to this day I know of no one who can tell me the advantages of leaving. Anyone?

It was all about bigging up some ridiculous notion of sovereignty, making our own laws, finding wonderful markets outside the EU and so on. We always had sovereignty and the capability of making our own laws, always.

Brexit was a mere sop to the ERG and nothing more. They won't suffer though.

The Emperor has no clothes, and the whole episode was completely unnecessary. Well not one person who voted Brexit has outlined the positives of leaving, and if anyone else knows, I would dearly love to know what they are.

So sad that it must come to this, via British exceptionalism, a jingoistic media, and jobs for the boys.

However to this day I know of no one who can tell me the advantages of leaving. Anyone?

For a start, the HGV drivers getting a decades overdue payrise and improved ability to negotiate better working conditions.

Me? I would do well being in the EU but I'm honest enough to admit why it wasn't so good for many - particularly lower waged and underprivileged.

David Cameron gave people the vote on it. It's done now. We can't change a democratic vote but we can choose the type of Brexit we have. Unfortunately too many at the top have squandered the time attacking voters and calling them names - instead of focusing on a constructive way forwards.

a sit-show....of our own making....or those that voted BREXIT.......
Do they still believe that the majority was 17.4M...?...F**k-wits...16M voted against this shower of shit....
My father (now dead) voted for BREXIT, my nephews (too young to vote) suffering the consequences....
Good help us....

@firsttimedad79

Very glad brexit happened. It has now highlighted a big issue in the haulage industry where drivers were being treated like crap. Poor facilities and working conditions.

That's why there's a shortage, not brexit or COVID. It's to do with it being a profession that no one wants to join!

Yes.

And if ever we did for some reason get another vote on it - if we were invited to rejoin, however likely or not that is. Winning people over to the argument for EU membership is NOT achieved by slagging them off, dismissing their valid concerns and struggles, and calling them all thick and racists.

Presumably the country wasn't a utopia for many people before Brexit and that is why they voted for it? Perhaps if successive governments had listened to working class people and made more than empty gestures, people wouldn't have felt desperate enough to vote for Brexit. I also think the Government has purposely made bad decisions so that people can say "look how bad Brexit is, lets rejoin the EU".

If anyone's to blame for Brexit it's those who did a bit too well out of exploitation. Their greed and arrogance is what did it. Dismissing people's valid concerns. Ignoring the negative consequences of freedom of movement. It can work well - but only with money spent on increased facilities, opportunities, housing, and infrastructure AND strict rules and regulations to protect employee and tenant rights.

And the fucking government is full of leakers too!

I'm still glad we have left. It was a cross roads between rule via Europe and our own country where we can make our own laws, trade deals etc. It'll take time.

Just not seeing a shit show, given we are still in a pandemic. Yes, some frictional issues but…

IMF UK growth forecast 7% this year, joint highest in the world, 2022 forecast at 4.8%, higher than euro zone.

The UK has an unemployment rate of 4.9% vs the Eurozone’s 6.7%.

Of course, that is not to take away from the fact that many have really suffered this last year and a half. We also have an NHS not fit for purpose. But these are nothing to do with Brexit, although it is a handy scapegoat.

Ultimately, given the decade long recession that was predicted by many and, given the fact that we are going through the first pandemic since 1918, I am surprised how well we are faring.

@lonelyappleI also think the Government has purposely made bad decisions so that people can say "look how bad Brexit is, lets rejoin the EU"

LOL at this Government having that level of strategy! I agree they've made bad decisions though.

If people didn't think the UK wasn't a utopia pre Brexit vote they certainly aren't going to be thinking it is anytime soon post Brexit/pandemic, especially now everyone is starting to feel the pinch.

Of course there’s a difference between Wanderlust and desperation. Whoever said there wasn’t? But it wasn’t freedom of movement that created the desperation. Of course we’d all like nobody to feel desperate in their own country, but that’s not remotely realistic without a complete overhaul of capitalist structures. We’ve now lost one of the ways we had of alleviating that desperation. And Tebbit’s ‘get on your bike’ was very much not meant as ‘go to another country in Europe’, as I suspect you know very well.

The UK’s unemployment rate is masked by its failure to include the zero hours contracts on which very often people are not working.

@Sommernacht89

Completely agree,Brexit was for racists and stupid people and sadly,there are loads of in this country and they will never admit,they made a mistake.What a shitty country Britain has become in the last 12 years!

It's sadly this level of debate why we are were we are.

its all the fault of immigration vs unlimited immigration us a wonderful thing

@roarfeckingroarr

I'm still glad we have left. It was a cross roads between rule via Europe and our own country where we can make our own laws, trade deals etc. It'll take time.

We will never get trade deals on such favourable terms, as Liz Truss is finding out. Ngaire Woods explained this very clearly before the referendum. A market of 67 million will never have the negotiating power and clout as a market of 500 million.

We already made many of our own laws and played a key role in formulating the rules within the EU.

@TheReluctantPhoenix well am looking forward to the NHS getting fixed (reduced waiting times, better facilities and treatments) as this is what the British public were promised Brexit would bring about...

Will it be better than what the Gov came up with for the post-pandemic fix for educational catch up @50pence per child!?

I think how much of a shitshow you are seeing is dependent on personal circumstances, so for many the consequences aren't directly obvious. My DH's company imports 3/4 of stock from the EU - increased costs/ paperwork / stock stuck in depots waiting for paperwork. Hopefully, some of these issues will improve over time but for now I can directly report, that for his UK based business, it's a shitshow.

Will be interesting to have this conversation again next year. NI rises and council tax rises will mean less money in peoples pockets. Corporation tax increases from 19 to 25 percent with effect from 1 April 2023 so companies will be paying out more to the Government at the time staff will want / need higher wages. There's going to be a squeeze and the people with least economic means / secure employment will feel it most.

@roarfeckingroarr

I'm still glad we have left. It was a cross roads between rule via Europe and our own country where we can make our own laws, trade deals etc. It'll take time.

We could make our own laws already, what on earth are you on about?

But l read that one of the problems is European drivers stop at Calais as they cba with all the checks caused by Brexit.

And Dh heard that some HGV are waiting for license renewals, but the DVLA is currently taking 17 weeks to process anything.

@antoniawhite many but not all. The EU had the opportunity to give us better terms and refused to negotiate in good faith. It was a once in a lifetime choice and the majority of voters chose to make our own way.