Our society just doesn’t work for women

[Ozanj]

Not really an aibu but I am horrified by the Sabina Nessa murder. She was killed by a random stranger during a 5 min walk to meet a friend at 8 fucking 30 in the evening. What the fuck is this? Do we as women now need to hide ourselves away from 5pm to be safe?

"We urgently need to look at ways to curb male violence"

^I agree with this.

Interestingly I don't feel in particular danger of being randomly killed on my fairly rural and fairly regular evening runs.

I do feel somewhat apprehensive driving on a highway in rush hour...

It is also quite likely I will die earlier if I don't exercise.

Don't let completely unbased fear control your life, being randomly killed is extremely, extremely rare.

Imagine a world without males

Is the only message I get from threads like this.

That's what posters quite want.

Hiding away at home isn’t going to help either. How many women are killed in the home by their partners? More than by random strangers.

Not sure if this is directed at me but I definitely don’t hide away at home, I run and often walk alone (in more public places) but my point was I am always on high alert to my surroundings, from experience, something DP doesn’t think about. Completely agree with your comment about DV.

I live on the edge of Epping Forest and I would love to run there. But I would never dream of running there alone, or at night alone.
These things are constantly automatically in the back of your mind.

Yes I agree! I’d love to and I know that I should do and probably can but as above it’s always in the back of your mind. The man following you, is he going the same way or does he have mal intent. That car that’s just pulled up, is he just dropping off a mate or something more sinister? My brain makes these split second evaluations every time. Yes it’s exhausting and I’d rather not but I’ve had experiences that prompt this behaviour.

I agree that we shouldn’t all be scared and never go out but at the same time it is perhaps careless at best and dangerous at worst to suggest that women should walk or run in secluded areas. I know it shouldn’t fall to us to sort a male situation but we still need to be vigilant.

I don't want a world without males. I'm quite partial to many of 'em. I would very much like a world were my daughters and I didn't feel we were taking our life in our hands when we walk down to the bloody shop, or do a shift in a restaurant. Said feelings brought about by males.

I'm so sick of this.

I'm sick of having to watch my back at every moment because a man might decide me waiting for a bus in the dark is an easy target for anything from yelling something out of the car window to realising I spoke to him nicely once, tries to chat me up and gets shitty when I rebuff his advances, my ex who drops back into my life every now and again to make sure I know I'll never be rid of him, or to being a sitting duck for any man who is prowling.
I shouldn't have to, but I do, it will be of no comfort that I shouldn't have to take action to make myself safer if something happens to me, one night, making my way to work. So I'm stuck, because while I feel like no, it shouldn't be me having to change my life, and be thinking about what I'm doing the fact is I have to, because there's so many people out there ready to defend a bloke just being a bloke "Oh what's he like! Nightmare when he's pissed, proper ladies man!" Or write me off as oversensitive, that they get away with everything up to and including murder.

I'm sick of hearing that men get murdered too, when the topic is specifically about a woman being murdered, again. It just causes a side argument and diverts attention away from this particular problem, to make it seem like there isn't one.

I'm sick of namalt because I'm well aware they're not, but unfortunately enough of them are that enough women, including me, have encountered them and come off worse, and the bad ones will always pretend they're a good one, I've not got an inbuilt radar, I don't know which one's which until it's too late. But nope, that's unfair on the good men to be like that, their feelings might get hurt or something.

I'm not sure what people want to happen. Women are and have always been at more risk of violent crime against them from their partners or ex partners than anyone else. Attacks from strangers are really rare and more likely to be man on man than man on woman. It's not got worse, and in fact we live in one of the safest societies in the world for women.

Interestingly I don't feel in particular danger of being randomly killed on my fairly rural and fairly regular evening runs

I’m very pleased you don’t but you’re unusual. Most of us adapt our behaviour in a variety of ways in order to feel safe.

@BFrazzled

Interestingly I don't feel in particular danger of being randomly killed on my fairly rural and fairly regular evening runs.

I do feel somewhat apprehensive driving on a highway in rush hour...

It is also quite likely I will die earlier if I don't exercise.

Don't let completely unbased fear control your life, being randomly killed is extremely, extremely rare.

I don't either. Okay, it might happen but i still go out in the middle of the night to the 24 hour garage if I need something, or walk home.

I think teaching the Freedom Programme in schools. It shows girls and boys boundaries and what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.

Male violence towards girls and women happens because it can and there is no consequence for bullying, violence or murder.

Women and girls are simply not seen as equals. I know it is difficult to hear that, but that is what it is.

Prevention and education would be a start.

I'm not saying murder doesn't affect men. But this thread is about a woman being murdered. Again, why does it have to be all about male victims? Go start a thread about male victims. This is about a woman.

Why does discussion on murder have to be segregated based on the sex of the victim? That seems to be an utterly bizarre thing for anyone to want to do in the first place, let alone get angry about when someone else doesn't want to play along.

Actually there can be some good reasons, some in this thread, but I bet they aren't your reasons. I suspect you want to perpetuate a childish narrative in which women are victims and men are evil.

There isn't actually much difference between men and women. Jordan Peterson claims that if you select a random man and a random woman from the population, the probability that they man will be more aggressive than the woman is 60%. So, yes men are more aggressive, but the difference between men "as a class" and women as a class is slight. The reason nearly all murderers are men is because a small difference in the centre of a distribution translates into one group dominating the extremes.

Just because 100% of murders are committed by men, it doesn't mean there's a problem with men as such. As long as you continue to stick to that stupid idea, you will be arguing yourself down a blind alley out of which nothing productive can ever come.

(In fairness, Jordan Peterson also points out that aggressiveness is not the same thing as propensity for violence, women are more likely to express their aggressiveness in non-violent ways. The overall point about the wrongness of using a statistic about extreme men to make statements about average men stands though.)

Do people really think that someone murders a random woman because they weren't educated not to?

@Diceychoice

I'm so sick of this.

I'm sick of having to watch my back at every moment because a man might decide me waiting for a bus in the dark is an easy target for anything from yelling something out of the car window to realising I spoke to him nicely once, tries to chat me up and gets shitty when I rebuff his advances, my ex who drops back into my life every now and again to make sure I know I'll never be rid of him, or to being a sitting duck for any man who is prowling.
I shouldn't have to, but I do, it will be of no comfort that I shouldn't have to take action to make myself safer if something happens to me, one night, making my way to work. So I'm stuck, because while I feel like no, it shouldn't be me having to change my life, and be thinking about what I'm doing the fact is I have to, because there's so many people out there ready to defend a bloke just being a bloke "Oh what's he like! Nightmare when he's pissed, proper ladies man!" Or write me off as oversensitive, that they get away with everything up to and including murder.

I'm sick of hearing that men get murdered too, when the topic is specifically about a woman being murdered, again. It just causes a side argument and diverts attention away from this particular problem, to make it seem like there isn't one.

I'm sick of namalt because I'm well aware they're not, but unfortunately enough of them are that enough women, including me, have encountered them and come off worse, and the bad ones will always pretend they're a good one, I've not got an inbuilt radar, I don't know which one's which until it's too late. But nope, that's unfair on the good men to be like that, their feelings might get hurt or something.

Bloody well said. I’m also sick of having to worry for my dd, who men have just started looking at. She is 11.

It is not just murder that women have to contend with. It’s the constant aggression and the constant sexual entitlement and the constant threat of more violence if we don’t just to stfu and move out of their way. And the constant passive aggressive idea that we should be grateful it’s not worse.

Do you honestly think that, even if all the men were disposed of and it was a feminine utopia, that random murders wouldn't happen? Plenty of people are capable of violence

And the constant lies and shit. Men cause most violence and nearly all of sexual violence. So yes, there would be fewer murders and no rape if men were not around.

Do people really think that someone murders a random woman because they weren't educated not to?

I agree.

It would have been beneficial for men to have had the ability to kill many moons ago but modern society doesn't require this basic instinct. May be some men cannot stop this drive - like cats killing for fun or sparrowhawks eating other small birds.

Maybe evolutionarily some men haven't lost this drive. Some men may be able to keep this at bay or don't have the same drive or can channel it successfully another way.

I think just getting angry at men is a bit stupid really.

I have no idea why some men act in such a diabolic way but ranting is really not the answer.

Genetic screening for an aggressive gene or profiling men who have become detached from society and try to integrate them somehow. In the past the recluse or outsider would have been mentored by an older member of the community basically to keep an eye on them.

It could be that we will never be free from violence just because we have developed a consciousness doesn't mean that violent behaviours will cease to exist.

@LukeEvansWife

Do you honestly think that, even if all the men were disposed of and it was a feminine utopia, that random murders wouldn't happen? Plenty of people are capable of violence

And yet, it’s overwhelmingly men who kill. Strange isn’t it?

@wolfstarling

Do people really think that someone murders a random woman because they weren't educated not to?

I agree.

It would have been beneficial for men to have had the ability to kill many moons ago but modern society doesn't require this basic instinct. May be some men cannot stop this drive - like cats killing for fun or sparrowhawks eating other small birds.

Maybe evolutionarily some men haven't lost this drive. Some men may be able to keep this at bay or don't have the same drive or can channel it successfully another way.

I think just getting angry at men is a bit stupid really.

Why would it be men and not women who were genetically programmed to kill?

Just throwing out ideas not saying they are right. Men overall are physically stronger so...

@wolfstarling

Just throwing out ideas not saying they are right. Men overall are physically stronger so...

But women carry the babies and the instinct to protect an unborn would be stronger in women, wouldn’t it?

And yet, it’s overwhelmingly men who kill. Strange isn’t it?

Not according to this thread...

Not again. All this nonsense that all men are murdering swines is just mad.

Just look at chimps, our closest relatives- they are very violent!

But women carry the babies and the instinct to protect an unborn would be stronger in women, wouldn’t it?

Presumably only the females though