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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Our society just doesn’t work for women

169 replies

Ozanj · 23/09/2021 10:40

Not really an aibu but I am horrified by the Sabina Nessa murder. She was killed by a random stranger during a 5 min walk to meet a friend at 8 fucking 30 in the evening. What the fuck is this? Do we as women now need to hide ourselves away from 5pm to be safe?

OP posts:
Shmithecat2 · 23/09/2021 11:53

@sst1234

While this is a very sad case, what is the point of your post, OP? Are other societies safer for women? If so, where is this utopia you speak of? And this is very very very rare, so you are being totally hyperbolic.
The OP never mentioned any utopia. Confused
sst1234 · 23/09/2021 11:56

@Shmithecat2

If you read the title, she talks about ‘our society’. As supposed to which other society?

TonyThreePies · 23/09/2021 11:57

[quote Shmithecat2]@x2boys

What about shift workers,men picking their kids up etc

I believe that @TonyThreePies was being facetious to make a point. And your response confirmed that. Women will be told to alter their behaviour because of male violence, and somehow that's acceptable, but if men were, all the whataboutery/reasons why they possibly can't kicks in. Can you not see how wrong that is?[/quote]
Thank you @Shmithecat2 , that was indeed my point.

Heruka · 23/09/2021 12:03

YANBU at all to ask these questions. Not hyperbolic at all. Everyone should be asking the question - wtf is wrong with our society and how do we fix it. OP isn’t actually saying she plans to stay home, but highlighting how women lack basic freedoms to move around safely.

ToykotoLosAngeles · 23/09/2021 12:04

Pretty sure the comment about seeing who is convicted was made in response to the OP's use of "random stranger". As in, we women "now" need to be wary of random strangers, at dusk, on short walks, because of this case - when we don't know this is what happened to the victim at all.

Shmithecat2 · 23/09/2021 12:07

[quote sst1234]@Shmithecat2

If you read the title, she talks about ‘our society’. As supposed to which other society?[/quote]
What has any other society got to do with it? It's not a race to the bottom. More whataboutery at it's finest.

AGameOfCrones · 23/09/2021 12:07

Staying home is probably still the most dangerous place for women in all societies around the world, if home is shared with men.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 23/09/2021 12:08

It's true. Take one homepage of a news site, just one day, and it'll include several cases of men murdering women, a couple of men murdering children, a terrible road rage case or similar act of violence by a man or men, a man v other man violence, men talking on behalf of women, and so it goes on... this is our world.

ShaneTheThird · 23/09/2021 12:08

How come any time a thread like this comes up with people showing absolute anger and disgust and rage at how unsafe the world is for women, there's always people who come on to say: oh actually it's really rare to be murdered stop being hysterical.

BelleOfTheProvince · 23/09/2021 12:09

Well why would women be safe when the government don't even protect them. Can't even decide what a woman is or even use the word. Getting rid of existing safe spaces and locking up women with male sex offenders. Misogyny is not even a hate crime but in Scotland a woman can be arrested for tweeting an image of a ribbon. Flashing, stalking etc. not taken seriously and victims made to feel they are wasting police time.

LukeEvansWife · 23/09/2021 12:14

There was a post on here recently about a 14/15 yo who had hit his mother and people were falling over themselves to excuse his behaviour.

Anyone with sons should be teaching them to respect everyone and not to be violent. Okay some will slip through the net but it makes sense.

godmum56 · 23/09/2021 12:15

local to me the latest violence story is teenaged boys being mugged at knife point by other teenaged boys.

Bobsyer · 23/09/2021 12:16

[quote sst1234]@Shmithecat2

If you read the title, she talks about ‘our society’. As supposed to which other society?[/quote]
The world’s society.

Referring to a singular society doesn’t mean we have to have another one in mind. And it’s not utopian to ask that men don’t kill women!

Shmithecat2 · 23/09/2021 12:19

@LukeEvansWife

There was a post on here recently about a 14/15 yo who had hit his mother and people were falling over themselves to excuse his behaviour.

Anyone with sons should be teaching them to respect everyone and not to be violent. Okay some will slip through the net but it makes sense.

Indeed. Some of the responses on that thread were appalling, minimising or even giving violence the OK - another 'boys will be boys' situation that lots of male teenagers go through Confused. Beyond belief.
Shmithecat2 · 23/09/2021 12:20

@Bobsyer

The world’s society.

Referring to a singular society doesn’t mean we have to have another one in mind. And it’s not utopian to ask that men don’t kill women!

👏

CoalCraft · 23/09/2021 12:22

The idea that we should "tell men not to murder women" and that'll somehow help is ridiculous. Everyone knows murder is wrong. It is something we are all taught from early childhood and is baked into our society.

What we actually need to do is pinpoint what causes people, yes, most often men, to so fundamentally reject society that they break one of its fundamental tenants.

And I dislike the way murder of men has been dismissed in this thread. The reasons why men and women are murdered are often different but that doesn't make one more or less bad than the other. If society "just doesn't work for women" because 'so many' are murdered, then I'm afraid it "just doesn't work" for men, who are killed at almost double the rate, either.

For context, the murder rate across both sexes is about 11 per 1,000,000 people in the UK.

beigebrownblue · 23/09/2021 12:25

At this point I suggest we all read

'Why Women are blamed for everything'. It's a really good book

Yogsgirl · 23/09/2021 12:26

Men don't murder because their mummies forgot to teach them not to FFS!

Shmithecat2 · 23/09/2021 12:29

@CoalCraft

The idea that we should "tell men not to murder women" and that'll somehow help is ridiculous. Everyone knows murder is wrong. It is something we are all taught from early childhood and is baked into our society.

What we actually need to do is pinpoint what causes people, yes, most often men, to so fundamentally reject society that they break one of its fundamental tenants.

And I dislike the way murder of men has been dismissed in this thread. The reasons why men and women are murdered are often different but that doesn't make one more or less bad than the other. If society "just doesn't work for women" because 'so many' are murdered, then I'm afraid it "just doesn't work" for men, who are killed at almost double the rate, either.

For context, the murder rate across both sexes is about 11 per 1,000,000 people in the UK.

Then go start a thread about men murdering men. Why do people feel the need to make threads like this about men?!?!
LukeEvansWife · 23/09/2021 12:31

No but see my previous post about the lad who hit his mother.

Interesting that people are assuming I think the mothers need to do it. That said a lot about how people think.

It's actually Fathers who have a greater role in steering them away from toxic masculinity.

sst1234 · 23/09/2021 12:32

@ShaneTheThird

How come any time a thread like this comes up with people showing absolute anger and disgust and rage at how unsafe the world is for women, there's always people who come on to say: oh actually it's really rare to be murdered stop being hysterical.
Because abstract platitudes are just pointless. And it is rare.
wolfstarling · 23/09/2021 12:34

Men do get murdered all the time. We need to look at male aggression in society, it affects us all.

Original poster
Ozanj · 23/09/2021 12:34

@CoalCraft

The idea that we should "tell men not to murder women" and that'll somehow help is ridiculous. Everyone knows murder is wrong. It is something we are all taught from early childhood and is baked into our society.

What we actually need to do is pinpoint what causes people, yes, most often men, to so fundamentally reject society that they break one of its fundamental tenants.

And I dislike the way murder of men has been dismissed in this thread. The reasons why men and women are murdered are often different but that doesn't make one more or less bad than the other. If society "just doesn't work for women" because 'so many' are murdered, then I'm afraid it "just doesn't work" for men, who are killed at almost double the rate, either.

For context, the murder rate across both sexes is about 11 per 1,000,000 people in the UK.

That’s the conviction rate: far, far fewer female murders are prosecuted or even trialled as murder. You only have to look how many men use ‘sex games’ or ‘frustration’ to get off after killing a woman to see we don’t take it seriously.
OP posts:
Shmithecat2 · 23/09/2021 12:36

@sst1234

And it is rare.

188 in Mar 2019 to Mar 2020. So 1 murder every other day. You call that rare?