Can I wear this if I'm a SAHM ?

[baggingareaunattended]

There's a few tees I like, not so keen on the girl slogan ones as I'm a women, but I like this one and the WOMAN one .. but would I be a bit of a contradiction? As it goes I'm not married, but I'm technically engaged 😬

thespark.company/collections/feminist-t-shirts/products/on-wednesdays-we-smash-the-patriarchy-fitted-v-neck-t-shirt

Oh I pity if @FloconDeNeige has daughters and they decide to become sahms

Can you imagine the cats bum face???

She’s probably my disown them

I sometimes think that if all

I sometimes think that if all work was considered of equal value and renumerated as such then there wouldn't be this denigration of stay at home mums as if being economically active is feminist and being economically inactive is anti-feminist. Capitalism is the enemy of women.

@Ifyoudontlikeitdosomethingelse

Oh stop with the equivocation fallacies.

And you sound desperate and defensive yourself.

@Saladovercrispsanyday

Emily Pankhurst

Married
5 children
Didn’t work
Supported her husband campaign to become an MP

Today, she’d be regarded by somehow less of a feminist by a number on this thread

Emily Pankhurst was born in the 1800s! Women then only worked in domestic service or factories, often fired when they married or had kids, she was the forerunner of women’s rights,

I’m agog you’d try to reduce her to a stay at home mum supporting the patriarchy. Absolutely cringing for you.

Are lesbian SAHMs still feministy enough for you @FloconDeNeige? I assume it's only straight women you're happy to denigrate for being dependent on their partners?

I'm sad you feel Pankhurst would be disgusted with my choices.
Personally I think she'd be disgusted with some of the other comments and shaming I've seen on these SAHM threads.

I hope your (collective, not just you personally) bitterness at women choosing to be SAHMs doesn't come out to women around you. One woman in my life was quite snooty to me about me being a SAHM but has openly admitted to me she'd love to be a SAHM if they could afford it.
Perhaps you need to really examine where your comments are coming from.

The thing is, I can completely understand why some women would be uncomfortable about the idea of SAHMs. I totally accept it’s not for everyone by any means.

What I can’t understand is the vitriol and spite because, whether you accept it or not, it really comes across in some posts. Clearly, it must be something related to your own lives because that type of negative emotion always comes from somewhere.

I mean, I’d it was the other way round, what would you say to a SAHM, who has no experience of being a WOHM, pontificating about women who go to work or posting silly biased articles about the impact of nurseries on child development or whatever. Just imagine! It would be even more laughable wouldn’t it, if she then claimed her posts came from a place of ‘concern’ and she was standing up for children rights in society.

Yet this is what you’re doing and it just comes across as ridiculous.

Oh, I wondered how long it would take before the old ‘jealousy’ chestnut would be thrown in!

@DontBuyANewMumCashmere, nope. We could easily afford for either of us to stay at home. We’re long term expats in Switzerland in tech and pharma. But I certainly didn’t spend years at University getting a PhD in chemistry, to then stay at home and not use it. Ditto DH. I love my work, it’s a calling as much as a job.

Yes we know this Flocon. But do you really go through life thinking everyone needs to be like you? Could you conceive that other women might have other ‘callings?’ Or does that just not compute.

pontificating about women who go to work or posting silly biased articles about the impact of nurseries on child development or whatever.

I don’t care. I’m comfortable in my decisions and confident I’m giving my kids the best possible, regardless of whatever articles you post.

But I take issue with women who don’t work and depend on men, claiming they’re smashing the patriarchy. And I also think it’s a risky thing to do long-term for most women.

Could you conceive that other women might have other ‘callings?’

Of course I can. But don’t make out that those callings are also advancing female equality in the same way as women working does, because they’re not.

‘But I take issue with women who don’t work and depend on men, claiming they’re smashing the patriarchy.’

Come off it. You just have an issue with women who don’t work, full stop.

You say you have a PHD, but your thought process is so rigid.

Having a job is one way of advancing women’s equality. But do you really believe it’s that binary?

Just try and think outside your box for a second.

You just have an issue with women who don’t work, full stop.

It leaves many (most) women vulnerable in one way or another which I dislike. It also undermines those of us who are striving for equality of opportunity in the workplace. However, it’s an individual’s own choice.

Claiming it as a feminist choice is the bit I take most issue with though.

I think it would be amusing to wear it while doing your SAHM jobs on a day that wasn't Wednesday.

@moch11

‘But I take issue with women who don’t work and depend on men, claiming they’re smashing the patriarchy.’

Come off it. You just have an issue with women who don’t work, full stop.

Theoretically I also have an issue with women who give up work through choice and rely on a man, not those who have to give up but those who choose to.

I say theoretically because I have friends who did and I have no issue with their choices, but it was a temp arrangement when kids were young. So in reality I was all good with it.

The two women I was friends with who were housewives I really am no longer close to, I don’t respect their choice or the way the live, doing their blokes laundry, cleaning, shopping, cooking and really just acting like their personal fan club/domestic servant, we have nothing in common any more. I don’t find what they cooked for dinner or the fact they packed his business trip case in any way admirable or interesting and that really was much of their conversations..

I also think for a lot of women the longer out the work place rhe more dangerous it is, and I see too many women on here who give it all up then are fucked when he leaves them. And other women screaming but if it wasn’t for you he’d not have that career. Aye, you supported him to work unhindered and get promoted over the working mum who had to deal with childcare.

So I’m certain instances I also have an issue with it and am happy to stand up and be counted on it.

Having a job and the economic, political, social & cultural benefits that it brings is certainly the primary way of advancing women’s equality.

Of course there are many other things that can be done too, but unless you are indeed Emily Pankhurst, they’re kinda just window dressing if you’ve made yourself dependent on a man for your survival.

Here’s a few examples to get you started -

I have been a SAHM for a long time (3 children). I did a second MA in this time. Following on from this, I became very interested in a specific subject area. I wrote a paper which was published in an academic journal. Since then I’ve undertaken further research and collaborations leading to further publications. I would never have done this if I was working.

While I’ve been SAH, I’ve completed 11 property developments and sold them on or rented them at a profit. Would I have done that if I was working? No.

I just met with a friend earlier who has a MA from Oxford in a literature-related subject. It was only when she became a SAHM that she suddenly discovered she could write! She has 8 published novels and all their holidays now are spent travelling around Europe, looking at the historical evidence that underpins a lot of her fiction. Her books are translated into nearly all languages, Now she has just completed her first book aimed at the teen audience.

Women who are SAH can do so many things. Your education is not necessarily wasted - it comes to you at different and sometimes surprising stages in your life. Life is what you make it. You don’t have to be locked into a single career path to have purpose in life, you really don’t. I wish you could meet some of the amazing and diverse women I know, who do do much - simply because they can. You might change your mind (even a little)?

@FloconDeNeige

How would you feel if you had a daughter (perhaps you do) who decided to become a sahm?

@FloconDeNeige

Just read the thread you started
Expressing hurt that your dh had stayed in bed for a lie in whilst you got up to look after toddlers. On your birthday. Not very equal.

And then you say your husband paid for you to do a course when you moved countries (for his job) because you struggled to find work.

You must have struggled to look at your reflection during the time when you weren’t working and your husband paying for you to do a course.

There are so many reasons women stay at home though!! Even putting aside the feminist or not debate:

1. Their work is such (eg low paid, zero hours) that childcare costs make it genuinely not possible.
2. Their child has additional needs and wraparound and holiday care just doesn't exist for their needs.
3. They have been ill/are disabled and couldn't cope with the type of job they are qualified for (for whatever reason) but can look after their own children (particularly around school hours) and this is how they contribute to their family unit.
4. They're taking time out to retrain, study, figure out what they want to do, start a business
5. Low confidence after maternity leave requiring more time to get back to working out of home
6. Maternity leaves close together
7. Because they're being abused and have been manipulated into staying home
8. Because between them and their partner decided that it's what was best for their unique family
9. A million other reasons I haven't thought of ...

I've personally been in a variety of these situations and at one point my DH was a stay at home dad while I worked. Surely the answer to the patriarchal structures that keep more women at home is not to sneer at SAHMs but to question whether we have the right societal/economic model at all and what can be done to make it more equal.

@moch11

Here’s a few examples to get you started -

I have been a SAHM for a long time (3 children). I did a second MA in this time. Following on from this, I became very interested in a specific subject area. I wrote a paper which was published in an academic journal. Since then I’ve undertaken further research and collaborations leading to further publications. I would never have done this if I was working.

While I’ve been SAH, I’ve completed 11 property developments and sold them on or rented them at a profit. Would I have done that if I was working? No.

I just met with a friend earlier who has a MA from Oxford in a literature-related subject. It was only when she became a SAHM that she suddenly discovered she could write! She has 8 published novels and all their holidays now are spent travelling around Europe, looking at the historical evidence that underpins a lot of her fiction. Her books are translated into nearly all languages, Now she has just completed her first book aimed at the teen audience.

Women who are SAH can do so many things. Your education is not necessarily wasted - it comes to you at different and sometimes surprising stages in your life. Life is what you make it. You don’t have to be locked into a single career path to have purpose in life, you really don’t. I wish you could meet some of the amazing and diverse women I know, who do do much - simply because they can. You might change your mind (even a little)?

This makes no logical sense, neither you or your friend are stay at home mums, you’re a property developer and an academic shes an author. Both are work. I genuinely I habe no idea why you call yourself a stay at home mum

A stay at jome mum has no employment that is paid, he it self employee or employed. Developing properties, writing and publishing novels is work. It’s a career.

What an odd post.

You must have struggled to look at your reflection during the time when you weren’t working and your husband paying for you to do a course.

I did. I lost my previous job when I got severe hyperemesis gravidarum in pregnancy. It also caused antenatal and postnatal depression. This time out meant I had a career gap and I was deeply uncomfortable with the situation. I wasn’t a SAHP though as the children were in crèche.

I’m sure you’ll also be aware that it’s poor form stalk people’s posting history.

I have it in grey. Married, 4 kids...these things aren't incompatible with feminism...

That said, my DH has had periods between jobs when he wasn’t working and I’ve supported him.