Can I wear this if I'm a SAHM ?

[baggingareaunattended]

There's a few tees I like, not so keen on the girl slogan ones as I'm a women, but I like this one and the WOMAN one .. but would I be a bit of a contradiction? As it goes I'm not married, but I'm technically engaged 😬

thespark.company/collections/feminist-t-shirts/products/on-wednesdays-we-smash-the-patriarchy-fitted-v-neck-t-shirt

Bet OP is regretting starting this thread now

It’s gone from what I thought what a light hearted thread about a T-shirt, to a debate, to a heated debate, to women tearing strips off each other’s life choices.

It’s actually depressing, we’re all women, can’t we just accept we have different opinions and move on? We should be standing together not going against each other over if some people wish to be SAHMs or not!
Whole thing is getting bloody ridiculous.

I work full time, have two children under 5, am a lone parent. I don’t judge anyone for working more hours than me or not working at all! Pros ans cons to both. If you feel enough of a partnership in your relationship and it works for the partner to work and you be able to stay home and spend all that precious time with your children, what does it matter to anyone else? What harm does it do?

I have two gay friends with a child, one works the other stays at home, both female - is the SAHM not a feminist?

We should support each other; there’s enough crap against us without laying into each other on a mumsnet thread!

Flocin - So what if you were home for a few years? Hardly the end of the world is it?

It’s strange (to me) how you refer to him paying for your course and other times you paid for him. How can this be? Do you have separate finances? I’m not surprised you couldn’t conceive of being a SAHM if it feels like one pays for the other. I wouldn’t be a SAHM in that type of marriage either. Not a chance.

I couldn’t conceive of being a SAHM because I would never want to be one, even if I had millions in the bank.

@FloconDeNeige

I couldn’t conceive of being a SAHM because I would never want to be one, even if I had millions in the bank.

Same.

@FloconDeNeige

I couldn’t conceive of being a SAHM because I would never want to be one, even if I had millions in the bank.

Then you have no right to put down the ones who are good at it and get it right.

I don't put down women like you, who are able to have a full time, high paying career and be a mother. Because I couldn't do it even if you paid me millions.

So we are made of different stuff. But both probably do a great job at raising our kids.

Let's lay off each other now.

Let's hope we all leave this earth happy.

Let's hope we all leave this earth happy.

Well that’s something we can all agree on

Flocon - you just need to work out why you’re so wound up about SAHMs because this is bizarre. Just work it out and then drop it.

@moch11

I’m not and it’s not. Stop trying to make out otherwise. I was defending myself against someone trawling my posting history and attacking me.

@FloconDeNeige Is it just being reliant on a man that's the issue, Can you be a SAHM if you are reliant on another woman ?

Is it ok if a woman can't afford to work, can she then be a SAHM as she can't find work that covers her childcare costs or must she go out and the family go into debt to ensure she is towing the Feminist line (so to speak) ?

It’s very very strange all this.

I know loads women who don’t work. None of them would even know what a SAHM is / or that they are one . This whole SAHM debacle only exists in MN. It’s a projection of some kind of weird insecurity. Meanwhile, in the real world, “SAHMs” would laugh at this. None if them have any idea that their lifestyle is even anything to remark on, let alone attracting such obsessive judgement from randoms.

@moch11

It’s very very strange all this.

I know loads women who don’t work. None of them would even know what a SAHM is / or that they are one . This whole SAHM debacle only exists in MN. It’s a projection of some kind of weird insecurity. Meanwhile, in the real world, “SAHMs” would laugh at this. None if them have any idea that their lifestyle is even anything to remark on, let alone attracting such obsessive judgement from randoms.

Absolutely this repeated debate only happens on here. IRL, working mums and SAHM all mix together and believe it not are even friends !!! They respect each others right to choose and are happy for each other, that they made the right choice for their family. They also understand and empathise with those who have no choice, it quite remarkable really, it's almost like they understand it's not one shape fits all.

@thinkbiglittleone

I think the being reliant on anyone long-term is risky, whether you’re male or female.

Being a SAHM when the working partner is also female would certainly be more conducive to helping the working woman access greater opportunities in the workplace.

I love this company and have a similar tee shirt. I dont think it makes fun of feminists at all.

There are loads of things that are discussed on here more extensively than in real life. Owning a toilet brush, breastfeeding, changing bedsheets etc etc. It is a discussion forum, after all.

@FloconDeNeige do you really think that being a feminist means judging and condemning the choices of other women?
I find it so sad that you seem to be experiencing feelings of shame because your husband helped you through a tough spot.
It's not about 'relying on a man' it's about relying on a partner, on someone you love who you've chosen to spend your life with. When we had our first child my husband took a year off and I went back to work. With our second I took a year off. I am not currently working because our eldest needs a bit of extra support and I want to be there for her. I expect my husband would also like to be at home to support her, but he is a kind and loving man and he is making the sacrifice of going out to work, so that I can have this opportunity.
I understand that I am a very privileged, well-educated person with a professional career that I can pick up and put down when needed. Lots of families may not have the options that we have and I respect their choices as being the best for them in their own unique circumstances.
I do have daughter. I want her to grow up in a society where she genuinely has a choice and in a relationship based on mutual respect, trust and compromise. I don't ever want her to feel shamed because she hasn't got a PhD or a 'calling' or because she might want to stay at home and look after her children. I thought that was feminism?

@FloconDeNeige

There are loads of things that are discussed on here more extensively than in real life. Owning a toilet brush, breastfeeding, changing bedsheets etc etc. It is a discussion forum, after all.

It wasn't how extensively they are discussed, it was the views and comments of people I refer to.

I might tell people they are henceforth to be known as ‘SAHMs’ and are a hot topic on MN.

Until I came on here it never occurred to me that anyone would give a hoot about how my husband and I organise our family.

I can’t recall anyone in real life asking me if I work or not. I never meet people and start weighing them up based on their job or ‘are you a SAHM?’ I find MN so very strange.

I didn’t feel shame because my husband helped me through a tough spot. I was ill, there was no shame that. His love and encouragement throughout that period helped me to get through it. I just didn’t like the vulnerability of not being able to rely on myself.

@FloconDeNeige you said you struggled to look at yourself in the mirror, that sounds like shame to me.
Isn't feminism about freedom? Freedom from shame and the judgement of others about what we 'should' and 'shouldn't' be doing?

@FloconDeNeige

I didn’t feel shame because my husband helped me through a tough spot. I was ill, there was no shame that. His love and encouragement throughout that period helped me to get through it. I just didn’t like the vulnerability of not being able to rely on myself.

Were you less of a feminist at that point ? Because you were dependant on a man

So again what if a woman going back to work isn't financially viable for the family, so she is realistically unable to work, as you were, does she pass as a feminist then or is she not ?

I can’t imagine being able to share your DNA with someone to bring children into this world, yet you can’t manage to share finances.

You shouldn’t need to be ill to justify your own husband supporting you, Flocon. Really, he should want to do that all the time. You’re his wife and the mother if his children. There is no more that needs to be said.

you said you struggled to look at yourself in the mirror, that sounds like shame to me.

No I didn’t say that, someone else did in a facetious attempt at a gotcha, and I replied to say that I indeed did find it a difficult time.
But not because I felt ashamed.

@moch11

I’ve never said that that we don’t share finances; you’ve decided that yourself. My husband is a wonderful man who is ready and willing to support me, as I am him. There’s no issue there whatsoever.

I just personally disliked the vulnerability of not being able to rely on myself.

[quote stilltiredinthemorning]**@FloconDeNeige do you really think that being a feminist means judging and condemning the choices of other women?
I find it so sad that you seem to be experiencing feelings of shame because your husband helped you through a tough spot.
It's not about 'relying on a man' it's about relying on a partner, on someone you love who you've chosen to spend your life with. When we had our first child my husband took a year off and I went back to work. With our second I took a year off. I am not currently working because our eldest needs a bit of extra support and I want to be there for her. I expect my husband would also like to be at home to support her, but he is a kind and loving man and he is making the sacrifice of going out to work, so that I can have this opportunity.
I understand that I am a very privileged, well-educated person with a professional career that I can pick up and put down when needed. Lots of families may not have the options that we have and I respect their choices as being the best for them in their own unique circumstances.
I do have daughter. I want her to grow up in a society where she genuinely has a choice and in a relationship based on mutual respect, trust and compromise. I don't ever want her to feel shamed because she hasn't got a PhD or a 'calling' or because she might want to stay at home and look after her children. I thought that was feminism?[/quote]
Absolutely this !!! 👏👏🙌🙌

It's about mutual respect and support in a relationship. If you cant rely on your partner to support you where they can for a while, whats the point in the relationship.

Its about a woman having the right to choose and not being or feeling forced to make a choice either way but respected for either.

I do despair that this is still being discussed in such a way on here to drag other women down, still 🙄

‘I just personally disliked the vulnerability of not being able to rely on myself.’

Fair enough and I respect that.

But also, do you think I would have been a SAHM for all these years if it was a risk my own and (more to the point) my children’s financial security?