People who claim to be empaths are narcissists

[Justreadingtheforum3]

I know a couple of people who claim to be empaths. They say things like "I was crying I feel their pain so deeply". This is normally in response to someone telling them their problem. Everything has to be about them and their feelings.

I'm pretty sure everyone is empathetic bar a few sociopaths, but other people don't have to make other peoples trauma about them?! In fact I think its insulting to the person experiencing the trauma to have person who believes they feel their problems deeper than them.

I'm assuming we all know at least one of these "empaths".

Are people claiming to empaths narcissist?

Yabu no they're not

Yanbu they are

I consider myself to be an empath in that I can easily tell what other people are feeling, rather than feeling it myself. Maybe empath isn't the right word?
It comes from having a mum who would have a hair trigger temper and could fly into a rage at the slightest thing. As a defense mechanism I paid very close attention to any signs that showed how she was feeling. I'm not narcissistic in the least - very much the opposite. Could be the same for other self-proclaimed empaths.

I’ve met people who truly are empaths who can feel your pain, understand it and make it all make sense and those people are worth their weight in gold. There was also a Facebook “trend” of people calling themselves empaths- if it made them even 1% more empathic in real life then it’s a good thing.

The root problem is that Facebook Instagram etc demand that you talk about yourself/ upload pictures of yourself each day. This leads normal people to overthink how they can make themselves seem interesting/relevant etc. I don’t think these people are narcs, many are perfectly normal in real life. It’s that they take the “Tell me what’s on your mind” prompt too seriously.

Either way, making things all about yourself all the time is never a good thing.

😁 @BoobsOnTheMoon, probably something in that too. I mean so far it's all been about knowing someone is angry ot sad. There are other emotions!! Sadness and angry show in people's faces, not sure another person being affected by that (experiencing their physical and psychology reaction to anger or sadness based on past experiences) makes them an "empath".

I mean certainly some people are more aware of the signs of other people's feelings than others, they read body language better. But that's not an empth, might not even be empathetic (depending how the emotions are interpreted)

My toes literally curl on hearing someone describe themselves as an empath.

@RicherThanYew

TheFoundations - I'm not angry, I just like to fucking swear. You need to work on your empathy.

OK, will do. You clearly know best.

@jd88123

A narccisist I dated told me he was an empath. He was very demeaning towards me and gas lighting. When we finished he said "everyone's an empath and narcissist as there is no greater sense than self" I disagree as I would say I am an empath and feel other people's emotions but don't use that to get sympathy. It just means I have to ensure I recognise and deal the the emotions so they don't get "stuck".

It would have made more sense if he'd said 'Everyone has some empathic and some narcissistic traits', but he's made the mistake most people on the thread have made, which is to think that having those traits makes you 'a narcissist' or 'an empath'.

One of the posts mentioned that we are all self centred. This is true, a natural instinct to meet our own needs. But almost all humans are redeemed by empathy.

The absence of empathy in general or specifically is the basis for psychopathy. True goodness is someone whose empathy extends beyond theirs friends, family and people like them to everyone, even their supposed enemies.

True evil is a lack of empathy for anyone or selected groups. Hitler and many Nazis were out and out psychopaths. Most Nazis just limited their empathy because of rage hatred and anger. After the war they lived apparently normal lives because the focus and basis of hatred was removed. This suggests are empathy can be suspended or limited.

Posts on here by people describing empaths are not describing an empathic response. They are describing an inability to relate to another’s suffering because of their own suffering. They are not putting themselves in another’s shoes. They are staying firmly in their own. Feeling pain caused by other events in their life. Unable to show compassion and provide emotional support. It’s not empathy.

Unfortunately I think it is easier to ascribe a bogus name to a behaviour rather than address MH issues and inability to process or manage their own emotions.

I think saying they are all narcissists is a stretch but I am certainly suspicious of a self-described “empath”.

It’s one of those things where I feel that if you have to advertise this quality to others you probably don’t have it.

If somebody is making somebody else's pain about them, they're not an empath. That's not what it means, and they, and you, have misunderstood the term.

Empaths don't exist so there is no standard definition. Yet you think your view of these unicorns is the only right one and everyone else on the thread (including self-labelled "empaths") is wrong. Bit narcissistic.

@CatJumperTwat

If somebody is making somebody else's pain about them, they're not an empath. That's not what it means, and they, and you, have misunderstood the term.

Empaths don't exist so there is no standard definition. Yet you think your view of these unicorns is the only right one and everyone else on the thread (including self-labelled "empaths") is wrong. Bit narcissistic.

The irony.

I think basically people are talking about different things, comparing apples with oranges really.

Plus, as usual on MN, you have a lot of people who have decided they are right and get very argumentative when someone else says they dint agree 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I am an empath. Growing up I was extremely over sensitive, I hated upsetting people or making them unhappy so I always put myself last. I really had to re-evaluate myself after my 8 year abusive relationship. My IDVA pointed out that my childhood was rather emotionally abusive. I learnt from a young age to always be good to keep my Mum happy, her needs always came first. As a result I've always been hyper vigilant to the feelings of others. Sadly there are many narcissistic personality types who seek out sensitive, empathic people. My ex would always accuse me of being the very things he was. I agree with a previous poster who suggested it is a result of hypervigilance.

The irony.

Exactly my point. So ironic that "empaths" are the more self-involved people you could ever meet.

I also don't advertise it.

@CatJumperTwat

The irony.

Exactly my point. So ironic that "empaths" are the more self-involved people you could ever meet.

Only the self involved ones are. The others, you wouldn't know they were empaths, so how do you feel yourself to be such an authority on the subject that if somebody disagrees with your point of view, you call them a narcissist? Why do you get to declare yourself to know the facts about a group of people from whom you've only met a few of the loud mouths and liars?

Why do you get to declare yourself to know the facts

The irony

@CatJumperTwat

Why do you get to declare yourself to know the facts

The irony

But there is no irony here. I'm not saying I know the facts, I'm just asking you a question.

Which you haven't answered.

"I'm not saying I know the facts"

"If somebody is making somebody else's pain about them, they're not an empath. That's not what it means, and they, and you, have misunderstood the term."

@CatJumperTwat

My perspective is that I was told by a wonderful counsellor who helped me, in many ways, to change my life for the better, that I was an empath. I read about it, and it helped me understand myself better. I don't declare it to people, and I don't use it as an excuse to make others' pain about me.

You seem to be declaring as a fact that people like me don't exist, and I'm curious to know why you think that.

There’s nothing special about being able to read people’s emotions. We can all do it because as humans we tend to have excellent and obvious ways to signal feelings. We use our facial expressions, body language and actual language and tone to convey how we feel. People respond with varying degrees of emotional intelligence and boundaries. In reality most people are very good at it. For thousand of years it keep us alive.

I don’t dispute that narcissists or ego driven people will seek out those who lack boundaries and emotional intelligence. But these people aren’t something called empaths. They are people whose emotional and behavioural calibration is off.

Also there’s a grandiosity associated with claiming special skills. Even more so to make up a name for it. Especially when behaviour suggests you really don’t have those skills or an ability to use them. This is the narcissistic behaviour.

Well I think most of us can agree that people who publicly say they are empaths are not empaths, by definition.

Someone upthread likened "empaths" to "psychics". As in, this ability isn't real, so you can't genuinely believe you are one. To my mind, though, people who claim to be psychic are probably like Derren Brown but don't know it - as in, they are incredibly good at reading people and making things sound true and personal, but as they don't realise that they are using this skill they think it's psychic ability.

I think that being an empath is similar. Hypervigilance and sensitivity to the most subtle cues mean you pick up on every nuance of the mood, and interpret that according to your own (trauma-based, possibly) experience, and that is experienced as taking on the feelings of others. It's not a gift. It's a burden. And anyone using it like a badge of honour has fundamentally misunderstood what it actually means.

It's not a gift. It's a burden. And anyone using it like a badge of honour has fundamentally misunderstood what it actually means.

I agree there @ClawedButler

I also think this is why 'empaths' are geting a bad name. Because those who go round shouting the everyone that they are empaths and 'oh Look at me' are not actual 'empaths'
This thread has demonstarted that very well.

Of course there are people who are genuinely empathetic so generalisation is not reasonable. I would say I'm very empathetic but not in a loud or showy way as I really do care about people.

I do know someone very well who has no empathy but who exhibits something that people might mistake for empathy along the lines of what you're saying. Sometimes they aren't actually seeing beyond themselves, and others they are feigning empathy to make themselves look good.

I also feel other people’s emotions as if they were my own. Doesn’t happen with everybody and tends to be the ‘strong’ emotions. It means I can go from happy/content to sad/angry very rapidly. It’s taken a while to understand that it’s not my emotion and then just ignore it. It’s def not an asset, just v confusing until you work out where it’s coming from.

I’m also hyper sensitive as a result of early trauma. It’s v v different. Hyper sensitive means I can be v good at reading people to assess whether there is a threat/issue. It’s not feeling their emotions as my own, but picking up on their emotions and sometimes (I manage it better now) feeling anxious until I’ve ‘made things better’.

Neither of these are ‘empathy’ as it’s usually understood, but the first is how I would explain being an empath. Except I wouldn’t because pretty much no-one in the first group would go around proclaiming they are an empath.

I like to think I can show empathy to my friends, but there’s usually an element where you have to rely on personal experiences to truly understand so whilst I can imagine how they feel that’s as far as it goes (unless they’re one of the people I pick up on)