People who claim to be empaths are narcissists

[Justreadingtheforum3]

I know a couple of people who claim to be empaths. They say things like "I was crying I feel their pain so deeply". This is normally in response to someone telling them their problem. Everything has to be about them and their feelings.

I'm pretty sure everyone is empathetic bar a few sociopaths, but other people don't have to make other peoples trauma about them?! In fact I think its insulting to the person experiencing the trauma to have person who believes they feel their problems deeper than them.

I'm assuming we all know at least one of these "empaths".

Are people claiming to empaths narcissist?

Yabu no they're not

Yanbu they are

@cravingthelook

Everyone has the capability for empathy. When someone is described as an empath it's usually to say they are tuned into others feelings more than usual. Learning to be this tuned in is often a trauma response and it is a subconsciously learned defence mechanism. The same trauma can also cause the response to be to think about me me me. This I'm sure there's a link between 'empath's' and 'narcissists' but I'd be more interested in a study of the link with childhood trauma.

I’ve read that before.

No idea if. it’s true.

But I’m actually not sure I’d wish for people to be empath. Too many struggles associated with it tbh.

I haven’t voted because I think some are and some aren’t. On one hand anyone who is truly empathic doesn’t usually go round telling everyone they are, and on the other hand some may truly be trying to encourage others. Not many in the second category though!

@MotherofPoodles

I think empaths are more likely to be hyper vigilant which is usually caused by trauma.

Very few people are diagnostically Narcissistic. Very few people are true Empaths. Lots of people have traits. some self advertise it, some don't.

I think some people cross over into empath & grief thief but obviously that's a big generalisation.

I agree that both are trauma responses though (either end of the spectrum of responses, and often attracted to each other due to that)

Didn't know you could pop between names once you NC and I have been on here years! I'm a dick, sorry.

Thank you @TintinIsBack that is exactly it. You feel so stupid if you cry when it isn't your own emotion. People don't realise that it is just an extension of your own feelings, you don't need to be told someone is sad or angry you just know that YOU weren't sad or angry until a new person came into the room and then you can tell you haven't suddenly become sad or angry at random so it is them not you. That's all it is. A confusing, stressful and distracting thing you learn to cope with by blocking it off as you learn how.
I am no royalist but when I saw the queen at Phillips funeral, so small and defeated and old but unable to raise her head as she isn't supposed to cry... I had tears running down my face the whole time even though I wasn't "crying", it is impossible to avoid. I avoid so many places and situations as a result, there is nothing worse than crying because someone else is, you look a total twat. It is awful with kids, too. A child crying because their dog died does not need a moronic adult crying along with them so you learn to distance yourself and actively avoid these situations. I continually have to hide my face if one of my kids cries about a playground bully or something, to be seen crying with them is confirming to them that they should cry - it does not go hand in hand with the speech I'm trying to give about how the little shit isn't worth crying over and is best ignored, etc. Could give a thousand examples but there is no point!
Sorry for ridiculous amounts of errors in previous message, bloody autocorrect. There should be an edit function! Why after all these years is there no edit function?! Sigh

Oh, i have a friend like this. She posts constantly, waxing lyrical about what an empath she is, how she is so amazing at understanding other people's feelings, how they always come to her for advice, it goes on and on and on. She is also a raging narcissist and doesn't actually demonstrate true empathy at all. She only ever thinks about herself - her own feelings, what she's going through etc, and doesn't seem to understand at all how her actions affect those around her.

I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone, so I don't know about narcissism, but I am generally extremely suspicious of anyone who feels the need to describe themselves.
Usually, it's people telling me how good they are at their jobs (they usually are not), or how trustworthy they are (ditto). But I suppose this fits too. If someone has a quality or particular ability, it's generally obvious. If you have to tell people, there is a fair chance that it isn't true.

Yes, you are, Deanna, but in fairness you do sometimes say things like ‘I sense anger!’ when the Borg are actually attacking the Enterprise and a toaster would probably say the same…

I thought Talkie Toaster was Red Dwarf. 🤔🤔

Also would add that for me personally I experienced no trauma until being raped in my teens and yet was like this from a very small a child. Didn't know it wasn't something everyone experienced until I was a lot older and didn't know my mother was the same until I was an adult. I have had anxiety and depression my entire life, medicated on and off once I was late teens and I am 40 now. It's misunderstood and mostly due to the bellends that go around telling people they are empaths. It's an oddity and an inconvenience (to put it mildly!), not a super power or special gift. It must be fantastic to only ever have to feel your own emotions. Not everyone wants to be a centre of attention twat that jumps on and exploits the suffering of others. That's why I say no real empath would ever go around telling people! What a cunty thing to do/way live.

This is a really interesting thread! I have a friend who claims to be an empath but she is actually very self-centered (I feel mean saying it but it is true - everything becomes about her). She often makes people feel uncomfortable with the questions she asks, she's ever so nosey and doesn't seem to realise that the things she says irl and on social media make people feel judged, embarrassed etc. So I always find it odd that she claims to be an empath but has so little understanding of how her actions and words affect others.

@Angrymum22

Empathy is an emotional state that most people experience in n day to day life. It is not a personality type.

Absolutely! I tend to find people claiming to be empaths are either very self involved (grief thief types) or lack emotional resilience and expect others to mollycoddle them. There is a reason you don’t find it in the DSM. Those with trauma responses or who are neurodivergent that are being labeled this have just had the misfortune to meet idiots who lack understanding of psychology…

From my sample size of the one person I know who claims to be a empath, after 20 years, I am yet to see this demonstrated.....ever.

To the contrary, plenty of examples of self centered, unsympathetic and quite frankly bulling behaviors.

They also talk a lot about their faith and charity work, only examples of this have been when they will be seen and praised externally.

There must be some truly lovely empathetic people. Sadly those self professed, that I have encountered, who proclaim it most loudly haven't been.

My very manipulative ex will tell anyone that a lot of things are difficult for him as he is so very sensitive to others pain. So much so that it hurts him for them to bring up their problems as it makes him anything from uncomfortable to suicidal. Yeah. You can't discuss your bad day in front of him as he will then have a bad week

It's like a useful sign, though, isn't it. Like anyone who loudly and repeatedly trumpets about a label they think makes them look good, it actually is a clear signal to the rest of us that provides very helpful information. E.g.:
"I'm an empath" = "Attend to meeeeee!"
"I do so much for charity" = "I'll only help people if it's Instagrammable"
"I'm a nice guy" = "I'm a cross, entitled incel with wankers' arthritis"

It's like the old, power shouldn't belong to the people who want it thing. Real empaths (or whatever you want to call them) don't make a song and dance about it because it's shite.

Everyone seems to want to SAY they're an empath, but not actually be one.

Me, I wish I was a psychopath. Crap for the people around you, but must be brilliant to actually be one.

@ClawedButler

Everyone seems to want to SAY they're an empath, but not actually be one.

Me, I wish I was a psychopath. Crap for the people around you, but must be brilliant to actually be one.

Tbf, most of the behaviour the empaths are describing in themselves is closer to psychopathy.

They also seem to lack a basic understanding of irony if they think what they are doing is empathetic.

My late mil was a narcissist and it was so difficult dealing with her. When people call everyone one I inwardly roll my eyes : they have no idea at all and generally people just say it because they think the person is like this or has these traits. I don't think that in many cases they really are narcissistic, but it has become the latest buzz word. Plus I'm sure many are not clinically diagnosed as my own mil was.
I do sympathize with people going through a bad time and try to help ( if I can ) but mostly I realize that there is only so much you can do for people ; a listening ear is always welcome I think as too many people are not keen on just listening to others , they just want to twist it round to be about them!

@Angrymum22, being an empath isn’t just about having some empathy.

And, as demonstrated on. most threads on MN, having empathy isn’t the default position for most people!

@Angrymum22, being an empath isn’t just about having some empathy

No, being An Empath is about being a twat.

If I were in sorrow and trouble, I would so much rather have someone there who was sympathetic than someone who told me she was empathetic.

I don't want someone to feel my pain; I want someone to heal my pain. Or at the very least to acknowledge my pain, to allow it to be mine, and not to tell me that they Understand it until I want to throw things at them.

The words "oh, I know just how you feel" are very unlikely to be accurate.

Bloody hell, @ClawedButler , youhi tht right out of the park on the first attempt.

Shall we just table this now and all refer to @ClawedButler response if in doubt later?

So heartening that normal people do exist.

Ok @LemonTT . I hear you.
What our bud Clawed is saying is that when you have to live the "impossible, ego feeding and self obsessed Empath thing" in reality, you do GENUINELY wish for revenge! No one would believe it except another similar person, but really. We hate it. Maybe we have learned to see it as a gift or maybe we have committed suicide by 16 years old because the world/life/peoples Ute too much and it's not worth it. Often, sadly, I suspect the latter.

It is hard. It is not usually the way you are saying (on average from these comments), in that you are all saying things like "and when I say or do this... ...They do that...". For a genuine "empath" you only feel it. There te different words for subtitles different levels. Empathy/empathetic/empathic/empath... I don't know all the jargon. Basically for me, I feel emotions "willynilly" depending on the environment, the people... sometimes an empty space! It exists.
It is not amazing or "deep" or "spiritual""- what it is is frankly pretty shit. You know (not see, or feel, or think - you KNOW humanity is shit and pointless and will always be scum and be hurt and scared and you hate it.

On reflection that sounds angry and mental but sod it. It's Mumsnet. I'm tired. It is only my perception; after all, I am no doubt mad and a "hon".

Apologies for autocorrect typos, I'll never learn!

In my experience it’s impossible to categorise human beings into neat little labels. In fact the actual science behind mental health diagnoses is incredibly flawed and even psychiatrists often can’t agree on even the most common diagnoses. Humans are complicated.

The behaviour you describe is a bit self centred but that doesn’t mean they are narcissistic.