People who claim to be empaths are narcissists

[Justreadingtheforum3]

I know a couple of people who claim to be empaths. They say things like "I was crying I feel their pain so deeply". This is normally in response to someone telling them their problem. Everything has to be about them and their feelings.

I'm pretty sure everyone is empathetic bar a few sociopaths, but other people don't have to make other peoples trauma about them?! In fact I think its insulting to the person experiencing the trauma to have person who believes they feel their problems deeper than them.

I'm assuming we all know at least one of these "empaths".

Are people claiming to empaths narcissist?

Yabu no they're not

Yanbu they are

Strange question and kind of unanswerable because everyone is different.

Some people are very empathetic, some people aren't. Some people are in between.

Some people feel things very deeply and intensely and may be trying to support someone but it then becomes about them, and they can no longer help that person.

It's not really their fault but just how they are built. People with BPD are often like this.

Some people just don't have the ability to have true insight into their behaviour and the impact of it.

Every time I was upset about something, he would be "feeling it too" so I would somehow end up comforting him

Yes! My MiL is like this.

She claims to “feel other peoples trauma so deeply” when in reality, somehow, you end up comforting her as she’s in tears as she’s so worried/upset/anxious

My SiL went through a horrible divorce a few years ago, but everything became about how worried and upset MiL was.

Again, recently my younger daughter has had some health issues and we just can’t talk to her as she end up in tears and always manages to turn any conversation into how worried and upset she is about DD, so you end up comforting and reassuring her. Of course, she’s worried about her grandchild, but I always find it odd that if DH phones for a chat with his mum, he’s the one that ends up comforting her.

Yes!

I knew one clearly a narc.
I had stillborn triplets and they made it out all about them. Phoned me on the day of their funeral demanding I go help them as they were overwhelmed with emotion and couldn't pick their kids up from school... on my children's FUNERAL DAY.
Then after that the real narcissist traits kept coming out. Gone no contact now.. life is much better! Hopefully the karma bus will hit them soon.

@Redcrayons

Empath = drama llama who hoovers up all the attention. If you have to tell everyone how nice, kind, thoughtful, feeling etc you are then you probably aren’t.

I think "Empath" and "drama llama who hoovers up all the attention" are pretty much mutually exclusive actually.

Some people are very empathetic but they are not usually the people going around shouting about it.

"I think you actually have a very shallow understanding of ASD, based on this evidence. ASD in women is often a very different ball game."

my son is ASD

There are many empaths who go about being empathic, and deal with their own sensitivities quietly.

Presumably they are all on Betazed so we won't meet them until at least 2063.

I don't think you can tar everyone with the same brush. Some people are empaths, some narcissists, some are simply good at reading people and situations and use that information to be kind and caring, or manipulate the person/situation for their own personal gain

@Alconleigh

I just don't understand this increasingly prevalent trend for labelling oneself. Empath / pansexual / non binary / seer of unicorns; this ravening hunger to be more, to be special, to be "this particular thing and everyone must know and acknowledge it". Often becoming a different thing the following week.....I sort of get teenagers doing it, as navel gazing is part and parcel of that age, but it seems wider. Is it purely social media driven? Do we actually have a population who is so devoid of sense of self that they must endlessly articulate it externally? One of the lovely thing about getting older (I am mid forties) is the realisation that no one cares. Which doesn't mean no one cares ABOUT you (hopefully), but we're all dealing with our own lives. Don't be a dick, be a decent friend and family member, and crack on. Stop identifying and just be.

Which was somewhat off topic. Re empaths, I don't know anyone who describes themselves as such but I'd lean to the emotional vampire or trauma explanations.

I think that labelling is quite useful inwardly. It's helpful to know what you are so that you can find others like you. There's nothing unusual in that; we all seek people like us, whether it's fellow gay people or fellow knitters or fellow cooks. It's quite interesting and helpful in understanding those you're close to, too. My friend's autism diagnosis led me to quite a lot of reading, and understanding him better.

That's quite different from saying 'I'm an empath, so that thing that's hurting you right now? Your hurt hurts me, so pay attention to/comfort me.'

Whatever labels you have, you can be a dick about them, or not be a dick about them. It's not the label's fault if you're a dick. It's not the label's fault if you use it as an excuse.

Actually, that captures the issue, I think: Label all you like, but don't use your chosen labels as an excuse to be a dick or treat people badly.

@bruffin

There were a few threads on here the other week where people claimed to be empathic. To me it sounded like the new "anxiety" on here.

Piss off with that. Anxiety is a real disorder. Empaths don't exist.

Empath must surely perpetually be annoyed or irritated though, as most people find such behaviour irritating?

However it doesn't seem to rank highly on the emotions they claim to feel...

I don't think you can tar everyone with the same brush. Some people are empaths, some narcissists

Except only one of those terms is from Science Fiction.

NC as - even on Mumsnet - I don't want to claim anything. I am an empath. I feel the emotions of other people as does my mother. I don't tell them or talk about it, it isn't a badge of an type and is rarely a benefit or a useful skill. It also isn't telepathy or psychic powers. I feel the emotion and can't tell anything other than I suddenly feel a certainty, most times it is hard to distinguish from my own emotions so I have to try and figure out if it is my emotion or not.
If it's clear who it is coming from I still don't know the reasons for the emotion or anything else, just the feeling.
That said, people who go around telling everyone they are an empath is a twat. I would assume that most are, like me, rarely on FB or etc. as the more you avoid the general duckers of drama the less it will affect you. You also learnt to close it off to a degree and ignore it or it will make you crazy - or at least exhausted! I assume anyone that goes around saying it or even better talking about it all the time is a liar.
Empathy is a scale like most things. I am always a bit secretly impressed with the arrogance of people that say, "it doesn't exist" about something they cannot measure or prove. The emphatic "but we know there is no such thing as ghosts" or "but there is no God". No one else has ever proved something they cannot measure and haven't experienced but there you are "knowing" it anyway. Love it.
NC-ing back now so not going to reply to any comments, doesn't matter does it!?! Just saying my two cents. Each to their own views, etc.

I think ‘empath’ is a term used by people with a low sense of self, and poor appreciation for how different someone else’s frame of reference can be.

They think they feel what the other person is feeling when in reality they are reacting to their own feelings and experiences, triggered by something in the other’s situation.

We can empathise when we hear someone has lost their mum, for example. We can listen to them and acknowledge the emotions they express. We can give them space to explore their thoughts and feelings and wish healing thoughts for them.
We can never pretend to know how they are feeling because we never experienced the specific bond and dynamics that they had. Even siblings, born and raised by the same parents, will have very different experiences based on birth order etc.

Everyone has the capability for empathy. When someone is described as an empath it's usually to say they are tuned into others feelings more than usual.
Learning to be this tuned in is often a trauma response and it is a subconsciously learned defence mechanism.
The same trauma can also cause the response to be to think about me me me.
This I'm sure there's a link between 'empath's' and 'narcissists' but I'd be more interested in a study of the link with childhood trauma.

I won't comment on the narcissism aspect, but, yes I think it's very selfish and self centered of such people.
My mother is like that. Everyone's issues end up being about her.
Hardly any support during my divorce. And some key absences still sting.

I've only encountered 2 people who claimed to be empaths - they weren't, they were just 2 completely self centred cocks. In my head I called them "MeMeOne" and "MeMeTwo"

Someone truly empathetic who would never, ever describe themselves as an "empath", because actually being empathetic means being humble and thoughtful- empathetic people understand and help others without making it about themselves.

@MotherofPoodles

I think empaths are more likely to be hyper vigilant which is usually caused by trauma.

I think this. I'm not an empath, but due to a shitty upbringing, am ridiculously stressed by people's (imagined? Real? Possible?) reactions to things, and my need to people please. It has led me to/kept me in some very abusive relationships and It absolutely is a trauma response.

Anyone I've met who has said they are an empath, or very kind, or a nice guy, is usually an abusive pig.

I am 'one of these people' - well, not in the way you describe - I'm certainly not a narcissist and I'm not a 'grief thief' but I do react in certain ways to other people's grief and emotions. I can see how it can be percieved as selfish and I can see how it can be misunderstood.

I have ADHD and one symptom/related behaviours of that are hypersensitivity. So for example, something like seeing somone cry makes me cry, and I find emotional films quite stressful. If someone shouts at me I find it really stressful and may cry or have a child-like response. I am super aware of other people's emotions, and if someone is in a bad mood it makes me extremely anxious and uncomfortable. Giving me the silent treatment is absolute torture. Because of this I tend to try and fix things and get involved in the cause of other peoples' emotions. I am/was often told I am ovrereacting or being ridiculous or oversensitive.

I also have rejection sensitivity. So if I've upset someone unintentionally, or someone criticises me, my knee-jerk reaction is absolute mortifying anxiety and an emotionally charged scramble to explain/fix it/undo it. My uncontrolled reation could be to cry, or to have a panic attack.

But I am also generally very empathatic and a people pleaser, which I have learnt from my Mum. Again, sometimes not helpful on both sides. But it brings me geniune and great joy to help people. Whether that is selfish or not is up for debate (altruism is an evolutionary trait that is ultimately selfish).

Believe me, I am very aware that my behaviour can be difficult for others. It can come across as selfish and it can be a coping mechanism that I adopt to protect myself from my emotions. It's really, really difficut for me and I wish I was different. It's led to depression an anxiety for my whole life and just coping with these extreme emotions is exhuasting. I try very hard and have been through a lot of therapy to help me override these knee-jerk reactions, and I am a much more balanced individual. As an analogy I would say that I am like someone who has arachnaphobia and is still absolutely terrified of spiders, but has taught themselves to be able to catch one and put it out the window instead of permanently avoid the room it's in!

So. I think lumping everyone into the same category and overgeneralising is really unhelful for both sides. People are wired differently and many people are neuroatypical to some degree. If someone comes across as 'selfishly empathetic' then there is probably a genuine reason for this and highly unlikely that they are actually a narcissist, which seems to be the Mumsnet go-to diagnosis.

Excuse the awful grammar there... why is there no edit button?!

The only time I've ever heard anyone call themselves an empath is on Mumsnet.

I absorb the feelings of those around me and I truly wish I didn't. You would never know. I'd never tell you. I'd hide it then retreat

@CounsellorTroi

I’m definitely an empath!

Yes, you are, Deanna, but in fairness you do sometimes say things like ‘I sense anger!’ when the Borg are actually attacking the Enterprise and a toaster would probably say the same…

I’m not a narcissist - far from it - but I do get upset at other peoples pain. When my DP talks about his best friend who died I end up welling up more than he does which I think he finds quite distracting but I can’t help myself. I feel so sad for his friend who had a mental breakdown and I feel so sad for him losing a close friend so suddenly. He is uncomfortable with tears. Even at the time he wouldn’t really let go and properly cry about it, so I feel like there’s a lot of pent up sadness in there. When I cry about it he he seems bemused by it.

Similarly my friend’s mum just died. When she was telling me a story about her mum it brought tears to my eyes, even though she was quite matter fact about it.

I don’t think that makes me self centred at all, but I guess that having lost my own mum, some of the upset may be about her as much as on behalf of my friend.

@SorryMyFault

NC as - even on Mumsnet - I don't want to claim anything. I am an empath. I feel the emotions of other people as does my mother. I don't tell them or talk about it, it isn't a badge of an type and is rarely a benefit or a useful skill. It also isn't telepathy or psychic powers. I feel the emotion and can't tell anything other than I suddenly feel a certainty, most times it is hard to distinguish from my own emotions so I have to try and figure out if it is my emotion or not. If it's clear who it is coming from I still don't know the reasons for the emotion or anything else, just the feeling. That said, people who go around telling everyone they are an empath is a twat. I would assume that most are, like me, rarely on FB or etc. as the more you avoid the general duckers of drama the less it will affect you. You also learnt to close it off to a degree and ignore it or it will make you crazy - or at least exhausted! I assume anyone that goes around saying it or even better talking about it all the time is a liar. Empathy is a scale like most things. I am always a bit secretly impressed with the arrogance of people that say, "it doesn't exist" about something they cannot measure or prove. The emphatic "but we know there is no such thing as ghosts" or "but there is no God". No one else has ever proved something they cannot measure and haven't experienced but there you are "knowing" it anyway. Love it. NC-ing back now so not going to reply to any comments, doesn't matter does it!?! Just saying my two cents. Each to their own views, etc.

I agree.

I am an empath and I can physically feel other people emotions. I feel the hurt and the pain, the anger etc….
I’ve learnt to separate my feelings from other people’s feelings. It’s making me good at my job.
It’s also hard to have to deal with other people’s pain tbh.

However, I don’t go round claiming I can feel what they feel. I just internally acknowledge their pain and concentrate on supporting them.

Someone who goes round saying they can feel the pain of others like that is a twat. Nothing to do with being an empath. I would actually suspect they are nowhere near an empath tbh.