Would you be off sick if you weren't being paid?

[MakeMineALarge1]

I work for the NHS, the sick package is very good, full pay for 6 months then half pay for another 6.

I know that its very stressful at the moment in acute care, sickness in our department is currently at 30% with up to 6 members of staff off per shift.

Lots of people citing stress etc, needing time out, and this is granted on full pay.

If you were self employed or hourly paid, would as people still be off with stress and still need "time out"

It seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

I would hazard a guess that self employed people take less sick leave than people who get paid sick leave, yes.

I've just been signed off for the first time in my life, for a physical reason that is severely limiting my life outside work, there is no way I could do my job even if I didn't get paid.

There is still such a huge stigma about mental health issues that can be as debilitating as a physical condition.

Of course it goes without saying that employers need to support employees better, especially with issues that lead to workplace stress and anxiety.

Employers should be concentrating on Tina who has every other Friday off (but posts on social media that she's made it to the caravan by lunchtime), or John who is off many Mondays after an all-evening post-match sesh on Sunday. These are the folk that make the rest of us feel guilty about genuinely taking time off to recover.

If I wasn't paid for sick I would only be off work if I really couldnt not manage to do my job at all.

It seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

No. Most GPS try to come up with some sort of solution like reduced hours or phased returns as they know being in work can often help with depression.

I would go one further and say yes people with sick pay take more sick leave. I know I've dragged myself to work many a time when physically or mentally unwell because I simply cany afford to not get paid.

You need good sickness benefits in the NHS. Any clinical-facing role is hard going.
The non-clinical facing NHS staff get a much better deal by proxy of the above.

It seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

Ask your boss for training around mental health issues.

That's unfair, because not everyone has a choice about going sick. I have chronic migraine, and a big attack leaves me blind in one eye, vomiting uncontrollably for up to 72hrs, let alone the head pain, light sensitivity and frequent stroke symptoms like facial paralysis and loss of speech. Not a chance in hell I could do any work (or even get to the office) during that yet some people think "it's just a headache".

I've had to take time off sick (a few weeks) for depression because the alternative was suicide. I'm privileged enough to work in a job where my pay was to affected by that, but again - what would have been my option? Sick and unpaid or dead in my case.

My mate is SE. He keeps three weeks pay available for sick days as he frequently injures himself at work but frankly does not up on tramadol, then drives a truck and operates dangerous machinery all day - he should not be allowed to do this, plus he'll end up permanently damaged before much longer and unable to work at all.

Paid sick leave is a privilege, however the cost of people working when they shouldn't can be even higher.

*doses uo

One of the big factors in Covid spread/death rates was that nursing homes that didn't have sick pay had hugely increased numbers of deaths.

I'm on the NHS bank, when I don't work I don't get paid. Injured myself and had to cancel work and will have to suffer for it.
When the choice is made for you financially you are much more likely to go to work!
The trust I work for treats bank staff like we are dim and unreliable but in reality the wards would close without us, in large part due to substantive staff sickness.

I would think that this is particularly prevalent in the NHS front line staff more because of the nature of their job - the gruelling and stressful nature of it, massive underfunding meaning there arent enough staff or equipment to care for patients properly, being expected to work overtime and long shifts regularly, and the pandemic causing horrible conditions for everyone and leading to PTSD, we well as a culture of bullying and managing out whistleblowing.

Yes some people will take the piss if they're paid but a lot will be genuine because of the above. Employers who give sick pay but also look after their employees can still have low sickness rates so it is possible

I have diagnosed C-PTSD, bipolar and chronic anxiety. I am self-employed, so generally can't take time off, or I don't get paid.

But I can adjust my workload, and work from home, and turn down work that I can't do - my financial situation allowing, of course. And those aren't options that a lot of people in jobs get.

I get measly SSP if I'm off. It certainly focuses the mind and I'd bet there would be a lot fewer people going off with "anxiety & depression" or stress if they had to survive on SSP.

Different circumstances. SIL has had to stop self employed work due to cancer treatment. I'd hazard a guess that if it was depression she would have had to cut her workload, change role or stop working but of course not off sick

I don't get paid if I'm off sick ( I'm a cleaner) but I also have bipolar and GAD which was the cause of me having to leave my full time job ( with full sick pay) and take a part time job.
If I have a wobble (which unfortunately due to the nature of my illness is inevitable) I will have to have time off and just not get paid.
Mental health is shit, wouldn't wish it on anyone, wish people who don't actually really suffer from it would stop using it as an excuse.

seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

And some people wonder why such stugma against mental illnesses exist?

I’m currently on sick leave; I’m fortunate that if I didn’t have sick pay I could live off DH’s income anyway.

But I won’t go back to work until I’m recovered regardless of how long that takes. As it is, I don’t yet feel well enough to go back - I’m aware staying off unpaid is not a luxury everyone can afford.

It’s not that easy to be signed off - you do have to be genuinely ill, which I am.

You're always going to get people who are going to work the system to their advantage. But good sick pay allows people to manage their physical and mental health as required, staff that receive no sick pay, will be more inclined to drag themselves into work when Ill, in the long run this helps neither the staff member or employer.

You mention lots of NHS workers off sick, are they taking the piss or really just a reflection on shit stressful working conditions ?

DH has cancer, he doesn't get sick pay but he has had no choice but to take days off for chemo and surgery. Not being paid at a time when he has a terminal diagnosis has made life very difficult indeed.

I’m not sure whether you’re UR or not because I can’t quite work out whether you think it is too easy to get signed off or whether you’re highlighting an inequality for those without sick pay?

I’ve worked various jobs with various packages and on balance I would say people are more likely to take the odd day or two unpaid if they’re unwell and longer stretches if paid. The NHS sickness formula means that if you have more than one or two periods off sick you’re scrutinised which means people tend to take as long as they can get because if they go back before they’re ready it’s harder to go off again. It’s not a sickness policy that lends itself to mental health and the best balance between health (particularly mental health) and attendance.

Well yes people without sick pay probably take less sick leave. But that doesn't mean that they don't need to take sick leave.

It will depend surely if you can afford the time off? When I have been self employed I have taken time off when sick because I am paid enough to accommodate this and make sure I have some money set aside, however I recognise this was a luxury. I am now 100% NHS and am grateful that I can comfortably take time off when I need it and don't have the added stress of wondering how will I afford it. I have yet to be signed of sick but I don't resent those who are completely burnt out and need some time off

I think that’s a very generous sick pay policy. I fail to see how the NHS can claim to be underfunded when they’re paying such generous amounts of sick pay. I’ve been having, and am restarting soon, cancer treatment. I get SSP only. I work in the private sector.

I'm paid SSP for sick leave. I've only ever been off when I literally can't do my job because of my health, and more than once that's led to me working when I shouldn't have been, and needing longer to recover because I made the situation worse. SSP is about a quarter of what I earn a week.
It's mainly been physical problems that have meant I've been off work, like when I broke my leg because I physically couldn't go, I had no choice.
I did have a period of stress and depression around 10 years ago that led to 3 months off work following an incident, without my family being off work would have just made the situation a whole lot worse because I'd have had financial problems to deal with too. I probably needed longer off to be honest.
Whenever I'm ill and feel like I need time off I have to weigh up if the following pay day, the hounding for missed payments and the few months of being utterly skint as I scramble to pay things back are worth it.
It has been quite a novelty to have 10 days with no loss of pay when I caught covid at work and had to be off.
There's still a stigma though, even if you're not getting paid full pay, no matter what you're off with , a pressure to return or not be off in the first place, and concequences from being ill too often from work.
Considering the impact it has, it's not a decision I take lightly at all.
I don't resent those that get full pay, I think it's really important that those caring for us are well themselves, and it's not their fault I don't, I just wish it extended to other jobs with a similar remit.

I used to do litigation claims and it was very noticeable that people who received full pay were off a lot longer than those on ssp for similar injuries. My old workplace only paid ssp. People worked when ill eg puking in bucket or running to loo. Stuff understandably spread like wildfire. They changed rules to try to ban you coming in with some contagious illnesses. I had a serious health condition and used to have to take time off unpaid for surgery on regular basis. Was difficult financially and I was always back in work too soon. It definitely took its toll on me. Work had no idea how serious my condition was as I took so little time off i’d have general anaesthetic in hospital Friday back in Monday repeatedly.