Would you be off sick if you weren't being paid?

[MakeMineALarge1]

I work for the NHS, the sick package is very good, full pay for 6 months then half pay for another 6.

I know that its very stressful at the moment in acute care, sickness in our department is currently at 30% with up to 6 members of staff off per shift.

Lots of people citing stress etc, needing time out, and this is granted on full pay.

If you were self employed or hourly paid, would as people still be off with stress and still need "time out"

It seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

I definitely think it would be lower if not paid, but I wonder what that would mean in terms of long-term health, as people could be working themselves into an early grave, by not looking after their health and resting when needed.
I have noticed that sickness has decreased since working from home, as people can still do a day’s work from their bed and get some rest, without taking the day off. I think that’s a good thing.

I wasn’t paid for sick leave in my last job. I dragged myself to work even when I was dying with the flu, I doped myself up with paracetamol and caffeine to make it through the day. Also still went to work when I had a terrible bad back and could barely walk, DH had to take me because I couldn’t drive and I had to wheel myself round on an office chair all day. I didn’t take a single day off because I couldn’t afford to not get paid. It’s counter productive imo, I was incredibly ill and should have been at home.

@PermanentTemporary

One of the big factors in Covid spread/death rates was that nursing homes that didn't have sick pay had hugely increased numbers of deaths.

Yes, and the reason that at least in my area, our employers pay full pay for the 10 days isolation, but only once, that I believe they get back from the council/local government. Only applies once though, if you get it a second time it's SSP, and SSP for things like flu, and that's only after your 4 'waiting' days. When the isolation rules changed, and we had to go in even if living with a positive case, no pay, and no SSP and possibly disciplinary action because you legally could attend work so would be unauthorised unless you tested positive yourself, it caused another outbreak where I work. But it's all about protecting the vulnerable.......

Nope. I'm self employed in a job I've chosen and like doing, so it doesn't occur to me to throw a sickie. I used to do it all the when I was an unhappy bored employed office worker many years ago

No. I'd keep working until I have a mental breakdown, at which point I'd end up in psychiatric hospital. I've come this close to that happening before. (The source of stress that time was outside work.)

My Dp has rheumatoid arthritis, he is frequently in immense pain but still has to drag himself to work as he doesn't get paid sick leave, he is a bus driver so there is an argument that he isn't safe to drive but what's the alternative? SSp is not even a third of his weekly wage, it's very unfair on people that are genuinely ill or in chronic pain

We used to get an extra days A/L (nhs) if we had a full year without a sick day. More than once was scoffed why do that when you can bag a couple of week on the sick.

I know quite a lot about this area because of what I do for my job.

You are correct, people without sick pay do generally take less time off. Our research has found that rates of people getting very sick (and often having to give up work altogether) are also higher.

The issue you are facing with high sickness rates impacting on you is also a real issue and creates a cycle whereby people are over worked and go off sick which creates pressure on those left who are overworked and so on. I'd argue however that the real issue is chronic underfunding and (often but not always) poor management.

I sort of both agree and disagree.
I work for the NHS so could get full sick pay if I was off. However generally I go in, even if I probably shouldn't. There is a lot of pressure in my department to be in work even when you really shouldn't be. They've actually brought in a new system recently, where if you are off sick your details get passed to a specific attendance department and they phone you daily to confirm why you are off, and ask when you will be back. Management have said its a very good system as it works to reduce sickness but I have to wonder how much of that is due to pressure rather than actually being well enough to work.
I've gone to work when I've sat in my car dreading it until the last second when I have to go or be late, cried in the toilets during my shift and ran out the door the second my shift was over as I couldn't face it. That was due to workplace bullying, and happened daily for weeks before I asked to move to a different team within the department because I just couldn't cope any more. I would've benefited from taking a few days off to help myself deal with the situation but I didn't.
I've also gone in feeling dizzy and nauseous and dragged myself though a shift because it's not worth the stress of taking a day off.
However that's probably due to the fact my managers are awful rather than anything else. When I had an early threatened miscarriage and was waiting for a scan a few days later to see if everything was OK they said well it's a gynae issue so are you back tomorrow then.

People take the piss with paid sick leave. I had a colleague who took a month off because she 'had anxiety' about moving house and from then on regularly had a week off with her 'anxiety' that seemed to appear out of nowhere. If she was self employed and/or wasn't paid she wouldn't be off. And people who take the piss are the reason that others who genuinely need the time off don't get granted it.

I work in the public sector. Sick pay is generous. I haven't had a day off sick in the last 3 years. Just haven't needed to, but it's good to know that it's there if I do need it. If I had a chronic condition or suffered from migranes or something like that, I'd definitely try and work somewhere that meant I could be paid for a day off sick instead of having to struggle in.

I definitely took more sick days when I worked somewhere that offered sick pay. I'm not on about long term sick, but I'd take a day to fight something if I needed to. It probably came to 2 days a year a max.

I moved to somewhere that didn't give sick pay, and would battle my way into work when really I wasn't well enough. People would make comments about 'shouldn't you be at home' or ' you'll make us all ill'. But the reality of it was the bills needing paying and at that point in my career 1-2days off was a very big hit for me to take.

Now I'm self employed and take time out whenever I need. But I then make it up by working over the weeks or longer days once I'm well. So technically more rescheduling and no time off sick.

Both now, as self employed, and at my previous SSP I wouldn't be able to afford to take 6 months off with stress. I'd just have to find another job before it got to that point, or potentially break and end up in a bad way.

That said, I don't think my situation of no sick pay is remotely healthy or sensible. But I don't know what the solution is, as I can see the domino effect, more people off sick the more stress on the others that aren't off.

And yes I do think doctors sign you off stressed too easily, but I don't think they have other options. I've been offered and turned down sick notes for stress on multiple occasions. When really want I wanted was actual support in order to be able to carry on my normal life. But waiting lists for help are months and months long.

I think it’s interesting the attitude of some of my friends/acquaintances to being off. I’m off if I’m that I’ll i can’t be in. I know of friends who have a few days off but go for a meal on one of the evenings or say they’ve been off ill all week then are busy socialising all weekend. I do think not getting sick pay would stop some people for having loads of time off.

Also, due to the nature of my role nobody covers for each other.
So if you are off sick your work doesn't get done for you, it waits for when you are back. Plus you get allocated more whilst away. And if anyone does cover anything for you if it's urgent it's made very clear that you "owe them", and are expected to cover something of theirs on top of your stuff.
Even if you are stressed to your eyeballs and struggling to cope, taking time off will only make it worse in the long run, so it's easier to just go in, do what you can and pay for it at home.

One problem is that if your just on SSP and you have to go to work, you may be underperforming at work because you’re sick, and that can lead to disciplinary problems. When I was having cancer treatment and struggled into work I was doing a lot less work than I normally would. My work was OK about that - as long as it was short term.

I think once you’re visiting your GP then absolutely it should be as easy as possible to be signed off sick.
I do think however that I have seen a definite change at work where having anxiety over something replaces what used to be called nervousness (Ie sorry I can do this thing that is actually part of my job because it makes me anxious), and I think that in that case it’s being over used to the detriment to those who genuinely have mental health issues that need support.

I have a personal contact (within the family) who has just taken the maximum six months off from working in the NHS because her mother (who was in her 80s and had been ill for a long time) died. She cited mental health issues. Strangely, she started back at work the day before her 'You need to return to work' letter arrived. Half the people in her team were off for weeks and months at a time with stress and MH concerns. I think when enough people abuse the system the rest of them think they're mugs not to take advantage if it too.

My mum died when I was working in the private sector. I think I was allowed three days bereavement leave and had to take a day's holiday for the funeral.

We have a nurse living down the road. She and her husband went to France for a fortnight at the end of August but didn't post anything on social media, which they're normally all over. When I saw her I asked if they'd had a good time and said it was unlike them not to post pix and she pulled a face and said 'We were both on sick leave so we couldn't'.

Knowing this, and knowing how so many GPs have just drawn their salaries while refusing to see patients has really undermined my faith in the NHS.

I think once you’re visiting your GP then absolutely it should be as easy as possible to be signed off sick.

But that doesn’t help those who only get SSP, as they can’t afford to be signed off sick.

Our work recently changed our contracts and the sick leave pay changed. We have now recorded less people taking time off sick. I don’t always think that’s a good thing as people will push themselves to come in :(
I know in a previous role I only got 5 days sick pay. I had bronchitis and stupidly pushed myself as I couldn’t afford to take time off and ended up in hospital for a week!

@daisypond

I think that’s a very generous sick pay policy. I fail to see how the NHS can claim to be underfunded when they’re paying such generous amounts of sick pay. I’ve been having, and am restarting soon, cancer treatment. I get SSP only. I work in the private sector.

It is generous, but you also don't want people with infectious illnesses coming into a hospital really. Better to be off than spread it to the vulnerable. Or being unwell and making mistakes.

People probably do take the piss, human nature being what it is.

My dp has just been signed off sick for 2 weeks with stress.

If he wasn't going to get paid he might force himself to work to pay his rent but may also attempt suicide as his past history shows. Him working in his current mental state would be detrimental to him and to his employers so I am very thankful for sick pay.

I have never used sick pay apart from the rare odd day here and there but that doesn't mean I don't think other people need it. When my marriage broke down I had amazing support from my manager but I know not everyone is this lucky and if I hadn't have had that then I might have needed time off sick.

@MakeMineALarge1

I work for the NHS, the sick package is very good, full pay for 6 months then half pay for another 6.

I know that its very stressful at the moment in acute care, sickness in our department is currently at 30% with up to 6 members of staff off per shift.

Lots of people citing stress etc, needing time out, and this is granted on full pay.

If you were self employed or hourly paid, would as people still be off with stress and still need "time out"

It seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

You work in the NHS surely you would know better than someone who doesnt work in the medical erring whether it's easy for a doctor to prescribe stress, anxiety etc

@RosyPoesy

I wasn’t paid for sick leave in my last job. I dragged myself to work even when I was dying with the flu, I doped myself up with paracetamol and caffeine to make it through the day. Also still went to work when I had a terrible bad back and could barely walk, DH had to take me because I couldn’t drive and I had to wheel myself round on an office chair all day. I didn’t take a single day off because I couldn’t afford to not get paid. It’s counter productive imo, I was incredibly ill and should have been at home.

That’s the same as our workplace, people who shouldn’t be in, come in. I even had to work during COVID but I didn’t have to answer the phone, however had to keep on top of my emails.

@OngoingTrauma

You need good sickness benefits in the NHS. Any clinical-facing role is hard going. The non-clinical facing NHS staff get a much better deal by proxy of the above.

Yes this but also....I can't speak for all NHS Trusts and how much they enforce it, but in the one I worked in sickness absence was monistored and managed very carefully, both within department and by occy health.....and also also there are rules about staying away from work under certain circumstances....for instance 48 hours post last episode for any kind of D and V unless you are 100% sure what caused it and its not infectious and that included food poisoning. MRSA swabbing used also to be a thing and sick leave until you swabbed clear plus various other less common things. Basically if you can pass it on and are in a clinical setting you stay home. Its needed to keep hospitals safe but also needs to be backed up by "generous" sick leave arrangements.

*working from home