Would you be off sick if you weren't being paid?

[MakeMineALarge1]

I work for the NHS, the sick package is very good, full pay for 6 months then half pay for another 6.

I know that its very stressful at the moment in acute care, sickness in our department is currently at 30% with up to 6 members of staff off per shift.

Lots of people citing stress etc, needing time out, and this is granted on full pay.

If you were self employed or hourly paid, would as people still be off with stress and still need "time out"

It seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

I work for the NHS and yes you get paid but your constantly under the treat of being fired if you reach a stage 4 sickness. They use the Bradford index and it takes nothing to trigger it. I was under threat of moving to a grade three after having a bad year, previously taken no sick leave. I had pneumonia and took 1 day off then put in full ppe on my return date after the managers heard I couldn’t barely breathe as we have to speak to them on the phone when ringing in sick. It seems only certain staff get the luxury of the sick leave.

PTSD , I hate how we now use this
YOU HAVE TO BE ASSESSED BY A CONSULTANT AND PSYCHOLOGIST TO BE DIAGNOSED OFFICIALLY WITH PTSD and over several months, I know this as I’ve been through this process, you can’t self diagnose and your GP can’t do it either, sorry just find it annoying when people stick PTSD for trivial situations and you know they have not been anywhere near an expert let alone assessed

If the nhs spent more money sorting out the bullying they would be less sick leave. Let them pay people sick. They are the reason people are off in the first place. Too many made up managers who hide in the comfort of their offices.

Don't get me started on people's mental health.

I worked for a National Institute concerned with mental health for over a decade. We worked tirelessly to get Mental Health the same recognition and funding as acute health for years.

The government forced us to disband 10 years ago but at that time we were just starting to see some benefits peeping through as a result of our labours.

Then lots of celebs and Princes William and Harry started talking about their mental health and people started to realise that there was no longer so much stigma attached to mental health issues.

We (myself and many of my colleagues who'd been fighting for this) saw this as a great thing…. UNTIL…. some people started realising that they could go to their doctor saying they were feeling a bit down/depressed and get signed off work for weeks at a time. No-one was forced to have antidepressants, cbt or counselling, so it has become an easy way to get some time off work without having to provide samples or be sent to hospital for tests.

Now, before anyone starts attacking me, please note I did say "some people", I am clearly (based upon my work history), fully aware that there are a great many genuine cases of people struggling with mental health issues, so I'm NOT tarring everyone with the 'faking it' brush, far from it.

In light of the ease with which many people (a few of whom I know personally) are able to fake mental health issues, it sometimes makes me wonder whether my team and I actually did a good thing or not in trying to drag mental health onto the same playing field as acute health issues.

When I was an employee, I never took any sick leave.
Now that I am self employed, I do take the odd day off sick if I need it but I'm lucky that I rarely get ill enough to warrant time off.

I think it's very possible that people who are only just about managing would drag themselves into work because they really can't afford not to get paid. I don't think that's a good thing because 1) they might be better, for their own good, to stay in bed and recuperate and 2) they may well pass on whatever they've got to everyone else at work.

Yes I was more likely to call in sick when unwell when I worked for the NHS. Now I’m self employed I think I’ve had one day off sick in nearly three years

Was that aimed at.me Blackwater?

Because watching my husband of 8 days die young and painfully after battling cancer is not a trivial situation and has really fucked my head up?
And I have been assessed

My whole family has just been tested positive for COVID. My DH had it worse and on top of it all has an injury from coughing (akin to muscle strain). He only gets SSP for the time off self isolating which is crap considering his normal wage is £500 plus a week. I on the other hand work for a local authority and although I am suffering, I work from home so don’t feel ‘sick’ enough to be off work. I would, however, get full pay if I was off sick. DH would not be off sick unless it was absolutely necessary. He would still be working if he didn’t have COVID and this was just a bad cold. Only consolation is that he gets SSP for the entire time he is off whereas normally the first few days are unpaid.

Pressed too soon. Haven't been assessed meant to say but doctor thinks I probably have..been referred

6 months full pay and 6 months half pay is only given to NHS employees after 5 years of service.

In the first year it's 1 months full, 2 months half. 2nd year is 2 months full and 2 months half. It gradually increases and being off sick too many times may mean you can't get the sick pay at all.

I think sick pay packages should be a right, if it can be regulated. It is horrible that staff have to work when they shouldn't be.

Many people with mental health issues will drag themselves to work on terrible days because we're already worried about what people will think of us. I think we have to be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush here.

I have anxiety and depression but i don't take time off not because I'm not sick enough but because I have to have return to work and get told I cannot have any more sick days in 12 months you can't help being off if your vomiting but some people in this country would love if poor people did not get any help because it is our fault we will not get any sick pay maternity pay or pension if this government gets its way

Interesting experiences of the health system.

For me and my medical colleagues, covid represents our first experience of sick leave because we can’t work pending a test.

For me a pending covid test was my first sick day in 15 years. Similar for many others.

I'm on SSP, and in a job that is currently short-staffed to the point where one or two absences puts strain on the entire building.

I still try to be honest with myself when I'm at my physical or mental limit, though. Back at the end of lockdown my anxiety took an awful nosedive (to the point of SH and suicidal ideation) and I had to go on LTL. This was after the doctor putting me on anti-depressants and my work trying me on reduced hours, mind.

I really don't know what position I would have been in if I hadn't had that time away from work. I'm still struggling now, but fingers crossed I don't need to go through that process again.

Should add that part of the reason my anxiety worsened so rapidly was because my workplace was putting increasing pressure on me to go back to work full time, when I didn't feel mentally ready.

I work in a hospital but im bank, i do more hours than most of the "employed staff" but i dont get paid if im off, yet they do.

This is only going to get worse with people waiting until 67 (or maybe older) to get their pension.

DH does a very physical NHS job and is 60 soon and his work partner is 62. They are both very fit because they work at it and they need to be, however is it feasible really for them to be still doing that at 67?

I do a stressful mental job and I'm a bit younger but also know there is no way I can do this much into my 60s.

People are going to get injured or mentally ill under these circumstances.

I know there are other jobs, but not for all the older folk who need a light duties type of job.

It's inevitably going to mean that people who get paid sick leave start needing to use it more.

Agree it needs to stop being a race to the bottom and from the government side they need to consider the cost of people needing to be on benefits if they give up work and for companies, the cost of replacing and training new staff vs the cost of some sick leave.

And for lots of jobs the work doesn't go away when you are off, you just need to pick that up and do it alongside all the new work when you get back.

I work in the NHS & i would rather we were not paid for single days off tbh as we are made to feel guilty at being off & episodes of sickness are managed .I don't think we should be going in when we have colds etc .

Typical mumsnet thread - all #bekind and understanding about mental health issues, until it costs you money. The attitudes of some on here are shocking - including not paying sick pay to your own employees. You have no idea who's headed down the food bank after you've shafted them. Disgusting.

@Toodlepip100

I work in the NHS & i would rather we were not paid for single days off tbh as we are made to feel guilty at being off & episodes of sickness are managed .I don't think we should be going in when we have colds etc .

The answer is to change the culture that makes people feel guilty. Guilt in the workplace is as ridiculous as presenteeism, or imagining that having 'spare' staff is a sign of inefficiency or overstaffing.

@Backwaterjunction with respect you don’t know anything beyond what someone has shared regarding PTSD or any other personal issue.

You may feel exasperated, but in the absence of any more information than had been divulged it’s best to keep those thoughts to yourself because it’s not your job to gate-keep diagnoses at the expense of other peoples feelings and credibility.

@Harmonypuss

Don't get me started on people's mental health.

I worked for a National Institute concerned with mental health for over a decade. We worked tirelessly to get Mental Health the same recognition and funding as acute health for years.

The government forced us to disband 10 years ago but at that time we were just starting to see some benefits peeping through as a result of our labours.

Then lots of celebs and Princes William and Harry started talking about their mental health and people started to realise that there was no longer so much stigma attached to mental health issues.

We (myself and many of my colleagues who'd been fighting for this) saw this as a great thing…. UNTIL…. some people started realising that they could go to their doctor saying they were feeling a bit down/depressed and get signed off work for weeks at a time. No-one was forced to have antidepressants, cbt or counselling, so it has become an easy way to get some time off work without having to provide samples or be sent to hospital for tests.

Now, before anyone starts attacking me, please note I did say "some people", I am clearly (based upon my work history), fully aware that there are a great many genuine cases of people struggling with mental health issues, so I'm NOT tarring everyone with the 'faking it' brush, far from it.

In light of the ease with which many people (a few of whom I know personally) are able to fake mental health issues, it sometimes makes me wonder whether my team and I actually did a good thing or not in trying to drag mental health onto the same playing field as acute health issues.

It’s very easy to fake low-level mental health issue because it relies 100% on self-reporting. So there can never be a level playing field.

IMO GP’s shouldn’t be allowed to sign people off for mental health issues. However this relies on MH professionals being available in greater numbers…

Also many workplaces are the cause of mental health issues.
Sick leave policies have to be looked at as part of a holistic OH management process. This includes the leeway given to managers to make flexible working arrangements (for those who are long term sick

No, I work for a massive company with generous sick policy, but I haven’t called in sick in years. Not even during COVID, as we were WFH. I obviously did less. And of course wouldn’t have gone into the office with CV.