To not want to say my pronouns

[Bamechage]

Completely happy to get roasted here and for people to tell me I’m wrong but I’m a woman and my name is always mistaken for a man as I shorten it to unisex. I enjoy the ambiguity of it and that in written correspondence people don’t know. Where I work have made it mandatory and I understand it’s to be more inclusive but I liked people not knowing. Have I completely missed the point here and aibu?

Tell them they're contravening Yogyakarta Principle 6F, which states that compelling people to state their gender is discriminatory.

Or just say #nothankyou.

I'd love to know which company has made it mandatory, i.e. making it a sackable offence for a woman an employee to decline to state how they want to be know, i.e. their identity as their personal choice, who they are and being forced to give a preference against their will.

If I were you OP I would do absolutely nothing, don't argue with them, don't make reference to it and definitely don't refuse. Just take the Do Nothing option and await your P45.

Believe me it won't happen!

Just don't share them 🤷🏻‍♀️

@DrSbaitso

Is Scotland letting transmen inherit male line titles?

I can't find anything specifically to do with Scottish peerages. An interesting point though - I'm wondering whether this will be outlined in the Scottish GRA reform Bill.

Found some interesting points on a UK wide perspective -

Women cannot inherit many titles due to their sex - lordslibrary.parliament.uk/women-hereditary-peerages-and-gender-inequality-in-the-line-of-succession/

However, changing gender 'does not affect the descent of any peerage or dignity or title of honour' (www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/16) so as far as I can tell, even if a woman transitioned to a man, they would still not be entitled to inherit. A man who transitioned to a woman would still inherit under the above law.

Say you are pronoun-neutral.

Would there be any sanctions, OP, if you didn't state 'your' pronouns? As in either formal sanctions, or informal (disapproval etc.)? My inclination is that it's compelled speech and you shouldn't feel coerced into doing it, but if there's a likely negative impact on your job or progression prospects you need to take that into consideration when deciding whether to do it or rebel.

It's kind of mandatory where I am, as they had an email signature template to fill out. But I just left the pronouns section blank. Do you definitely have to do it? If so I'd write "she's the cat's mother, please call me by my name".

Apparently those who use the word "woke" are reactionary bigots. That makes me a bigot then. This is woke nonsense.

And there is no such thing as "cis".

However, changing gender 'does not affect the descent of any peerage or dignity or title of honour' (www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/16) so as far as I can tell, even if a woman transitioned to a man, they would still not be entitled to inherit. A man who transitioned to a woman would still inherit under the above law

Ha ha why does that not surprise me in the least? Men can have it all ways.

@DeepaBeesKit

I have a friend called Lee. She is a woman. Her point of view is that people should treat you the same whether you are a man called Lee or a woman called Lee so why should she have to put Lee Smith she/her?

Your friend is very wise.

Agree

My preferred pronouns are First Person Singular

It’s bullshit corporate virtue signalling, an easy way to say we’re tackling diversity & inclusion while not dealing with any of the more difficult & costly stuff such as improving access for ppl with disabilities

quite. Or dealing with diversity as far as social background is concerned. I have a very mixed employer in terms of sex, sexual orientation, race etc, but they're all from well off-ish backgrounds. That is the really tough nut to crack.

I'm not overly knowledgeable on this but I didn't think that legally they could make it mandatory. Gender is a protected characteristic isn't it? Could they make it mandatory to state your marital status, sex, race, religion etc? No. Therefore I'm not sure why they would make it mandatory to state your gender/pronouns.

I'd be challenging this with faux wide eyed innocence; 'oh, I wasn't aware it was legal to force employees to announce their gender?'. Don't let them sidetrack you on inclusivity - we are talking *legality^ here.

How about her/he?!

If asked advise that you prefer that your sex is ambiguous due to sexist treatment experienced by women when their sex is known.

Interestingly we introduced a new recruitment tool in january and legally hrmc require you to enter your sex (male or female) and there was a discussion about removing it and having just pronouns but the answer was simple, hrmc legally require that information.

I was silently cheering

If you ask for this to be moved to the feminist sex and gender board, they will probably be able to advise

Bamechage
I/me/my/mine

Those are the pronouns you use after all.

Just refuse. Never once in my 53 years has anyone not correctly identified my gender, based on my name or my appearance. I refuse to indulge and of this. If a transperson wants to, fine but I refuse to see why the rest of the world is required to change.

@daisychain01

I'd love to know which company has made it mandatory, i.e. making it a sackable offence for a woman an employee to decline to state how they want to be know, i.e. their identity as their personal choice, who they are and being forced to give a preference against their will.

If I were you OP I would do absolutely nothing, don't argue with them, don't make reference to it and definitely don't refuse. Just take the Do Nothing option and await your P45.

Believe me it won't happen!

We we've been told it's mandatory, I haven't put mine on and I don't think anyone else in our team has.

All the sucky-uppy junior managers seem to have added them though.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

I'm not overly knowledgeable on this but I didn't think that legally they could make it mandatory. Gender is a protected characteristic isn't it? Could they make it mandatory to state your marital status, sex, race, religion etc? No. Therefore I'm not sure why they would make it mandatory to state your gender/pronouns.

I'd be challenging this with faux wide eyed innocence; 'oh, I wasn't aware it was legal to force employees to announce their gender?'. Don't let them sidetrack you on inclusivity - we are talking *legality^ here.

Agreed but just a point - gender isn't a protected characteristic. Gender re-assignment (i.e. protection for those who have or are intending to change gender) is a protected characteristic. Sex is another protected characteristic. Therefore, to my mind, if your pronouns are based upon your sex, it could be argued that by being forced to state these, you are being subjected to indirect sex discrimination.

The only people I’ve seen so this are middle aged women with obvious names -yes Jane we all assumed you’re a she/her - or new graduates. I have no desire to announce my sex or gender as it’s irrelevant, I just want the responder to do what I’ve asked of them. I also don’t understand why I’d announce who I’m sexually attracted to in the workplace - literally no impact on my ability to do my job.

I'm considering going back into the job market after a very long time as a SAHM. I'll be a nerdy back office type so less likely to see people face to face. I intend to use a short version of my name that could be male or female and will not be giving my pronouns. I want to take advantage of people giving less grief to men but not enough to outright lie about my sex.

My response is I find such things intrusive and much like not choosing to broadcast my sexuality and religious beliefs to any and everyone I interact with, I reserve the right to protect my privacy and professionalism.

Isn't it transphobic to make it mandatory. What about trans people who may be struggling with their identity. Or if someone is wanting to detransition. Shouldn't it be up to the individual to decide what and when to announce to the wider world. I don't have a problem with pronouns on emails as a choice but the mandatory aspect doesn't feel very inclusive to me.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

I'm not overly knowledgeable on this but I didn't think that legally they could make it mandatory. Gender is a protected characteristic isn't it? Could they make it mandatory to state your marital status, sex, race, religion etc? No. Therefore I'm not sure why they would make it mandatory to state your gender/pronouns.

I'd be challenging this with faux wide eyed innocence; 'oh, I wasn't aware it was legal to force employees to announce their gender?'. Don't let them sidetrack you on inclusivity - we are talking *legality^ here.

Sex is a protected characteristic If you had a Gender recognition certificate, that's also protected in law The current push to self id is not and hopefully will never be a protected characteristic.

There are an awful lot of us that have no gender identity, we simply are women.
How the hell do they put pronouns in/on anything?