To think the fact that non-vaccinated people will now have to isolate from all non-red countries has been hidden in the small print

[Butterflyfluff]

I’m pretty sure today’s travel announcement means that if you’re not vaccinated then you must self isolate for 10 days and take day 2 and 8 tests (can still test to release) from all countries outside of the red list

This means that non-vaccinated people going to what are currently green countries who thought they wouldn’t have to isolate, now will if they return after 4th October

@BatShitBitchChops

What happens about the 12-17 Yr olds that have had one dose compared to other countries that have given their young people 2 doses? Will ours be classed as not fully vaccinated?

I discovered recently that lots of my son's friends have had their second doses ahead of time i.e. well before 3 months before their 18th birthday. Having phoned one of our local pharmacies, they confirmed they'll do second vaccinations for any 16 and 17 year olds if they have Pfizer vaccines open that day.

Appreciate the second dose delay is due to the heightened myocarditis risk but the option to get two vaccinations seems to be there for under 18s. I think we'll use that route as it makes our European holiday much more straightforward in December. In all honesty, the travel freedoms were the main driver for the kids' vaccinations as I suspect they've both had covid.

'Bitter' is a very overused word on here. I think it's quite reasonable for those who choose to be unvaccinated to be subject to more restrictions. I don't see how that's 'bitter'.

I think it's quite reasonable for those who choose to be unvaccinated to be subject to more restrictions. I don't see how that's 'bitter'.

But no one has actually explained why preventing unvaccinated people travelling to countries with lower infections rates than us (who are happy to accept them), by forcing them to isolate upon return, is desirable, other than ‘because they can’

Unvaccinated people are subject to very few restrictions in the UK - why not focus on that rather than travel?

The answer is ‘because it’s too hard’

@Butterflyfluff

It’s possible those countries letting unvaxxed in are doing that based on the majority of brits being vaccinated. So again, the vaccinated bearing the load for the unvaccinated.

I’m not up to speed with all green countries but I’m pretty sure most will only accept unvaccinated visitors with a negative test so no one is ‘bearing the load’ of anyone

I think the bottom line here is that Covid has made people very bitter

Some undoubtedly justifiably, but probably not the majority

But UK is not letting in people even if they test negatively but are from a country where majority are not vaccinated.

And other countries are doing the same. So yes, the vaccinated are bearing the load for the unvaccinated.

But no one has actually explained why preventing unvaccinated people travelling to countries with lower infections rates than us (who are happy to accept them), by forcing them to isolate upon return, is desirable, other than ‘because they can’

One very obvious reason is that it gives people a push to go and have the vaccine.

@Butterflyfluff

I think it's quite reasonable for those who choose to be unvaccinated to be subject to more restrictions. I don't see how that's 'bitter'.

But no one has actually explained why preventing unvaccinated people travelling to countries with lower infections rates than us (who are happy to accept them), by forcing them to isolate upon return, is desirable, other than ‘because they can’

Unvaccinated people are subject to very few restrictions in the UK - why not focus on that rather than travel?

The answer is ‘because it’s too hard’

Because they’re more susceptible to getting the virus and therefore higher risk.

One very obvious reason is that it gives people a push to go and have the vaccine.

Which is clearly what it’s all about

Because they’re more susceptible to getting the virus and therefore higher risk.

So why can they do pretty much everything a vaccinated person can in the UK?

@Butterflyfluff

One very obvious reason is that it gives people a push to go and have the vaccine.

Which is clearly what it’s all about

... yes?

The answer is, because it makes no sense!

Vaccinated or unvaccinated when it comes to travel is irrelevant. Since both populations can catch and spread covid, surely if governments wanted to apply some common sense and actual science, travel would be subject to testing only. Negative test you’re good to go, positive then obviously not and you have to stay at home until better or cleared from the possibility of infecting anyone else.

This absolute vilification of the unvaccinated is horrific, unjustified and we must not buy into it.

Negative test you’re good to go, positive then obviously not and you have to stay at home until better or cleared from the possibility of infecting anyone else.

This

A negative tested unvaccinated person has to be less of a risk than an untested vaccinated person

Why is it a risk to you (assuming you’re in the UK) letting someone who’s not vaccinated travel to a green country, that has lower case rates than the UK?

If there was a new, rapidly spreading infectious disease in Africa would you think it was fair that lots of people from Africa came to the UK for a holiday knowing that there’s a high chance they’ll bring the disease with them?
So why should green countries who’ve worked hard to get their cases down have to then have a rise in cases and go in to lockdown again.

I actually think our country should have shut the boarders straight away and only let the people who needed to travel travel.
Why repeat the mistakes when it’s not necessary.

@Butterflyfluff

And people who smoke, drink, take drugs, are fat, take up medical resources too

Ok - I'll admit to not reading to the end of the thread but I'm going to respond to this anyway

People who smoke, drink, take drugs or are fat do not infect other people with those qualities.

Fairly sure someone else will have said this but I'm too cross to read on and find out

And of course there’s the total failure to acknowledge natural immunity, which has been proven in many studies now to be extremely robust. Some studies out of Israel even suggest that those with natural immunity have only a 1% chance of becoming reinfected or infecting anybody else.
How many of the unvaccinated are people who have successfully recovered from covid and so would like the opportunity to rely on their own proven immunity? We won’t know because it is ignored but potentially many previously infected but unvaccinated travellers could be less likely to bring covid into the country than a vaccinated person who is yet to get it.
Yet more reason why we must not support the division being created. It is discrimination without any just cause.

@Butterflyfluff

I think it's quite reasonable for those who choose to be unvaccinated to be subject to more restrictions. I don't see how that's 'bitter'.

But no one has actually explained why preventing unvaccinated people travelling to countries with lower infections rates than us (who are happy to accept them), by forcing them to isolate upon return, is desirable, other than ‘because they can’

Unvaccinated people are subject to very few restrictions in the UK - why not focus on that rather than travel?

The answer is ‘because it’s too hard’

It’s desirable because it reduces the spread. It’s the same reason you have to have other vaccines to visit certain countries. Again, not a new concept.

@Lostinacloud

The answer is, because it makes no sense!

Vaccinated or unvaccinated when it comes to travel is irrelevant. Since both populations can catch and spread covid, surely if governments wanted to apply some common sense and actual science, travel would be subject to testing only. Negative test you’re good to go, positive then obviously not and you have to stay at home until better or cleared from the possibility of infecting anyone else.

This absolute vilification of the unvaccinated is horrific, unjustified and we must not buy into it.

Well said 👏🏼 The vilification of the unvaccinated is utterly shocking and unjustified. You'll get slated on here though for this rational comment!! 😬

One very obvious reason is that it gives people a push to go and have the vaccine.

Which is clearly what it’s all about

So why can they do pretty much everything a vaccinated person can in the UK?

The above is very contradictory.

If the government want to push people into getting a vaccination they would create more restrictions within the UK.
They of course do want to push people to an extent but that’s not what the restrictions on travel is about.

@Butterflyfluff

If you choose not to take the necessary steps to protect others you can’t expect others to accommodate you.

I guess this is the crux of it for me

As far as I am aware, having the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting or transmitting Covid, it just hopefully means you have less severe symptoms if you do get it

Therefore the only people those who don’t want the vaccine are actually endangering is themselves

Happy to be corrected though

You are only partially correct. It does protect others, not just the person vaccinated because the vaccines do provide immunity (but not 100%- very few, if any, vaccines do so) and thus reduce transmission rates.

The vaccine does substantially reduce your risk of contracting covid- I.e. it does provide immunity and reduce risk of spread- but not in 100% of cases and immunity wanes over time. Data shows upwards of 75% reduction in risk of catching covid if double vaccinated (exact figures do vary between studies and with different vaccines, to some degree) at 3-4 months after your second vaccination. Data also shows that if you are vaccinated and do catch covid, being vaccinated greatly reduces your risk of becoming seriously unwell. Being vaccinated also appears to reduce, though not eliminate, your chances of passing it on.

How can it reduce the spread?

Say a person who isn’t vaccinated travels to a country with lower rates than the UK for 2 weeks after testing negative

How does that reduce the spread compared to them spending those 2 weeks in a jam packed holiday park in the UK and actually being positive the whole time but they didn’t know as they weren’t tested

Foreign travel is their magic bullet to coerce everybody in to vaccination.
Its not supposed to be fair or logical. Its just supposed to work.

@toocold54

One very obvious reason is that it gives people a push to go and have the vaccine.

Which is clearly what it’s all about

So why can they do pretty much everything a vaccinated person can in the UK?

The above is very contradictory.

If the government want to push people into getting a vaccination they would create more restrictions within the UK.
They of course do want to push people to an extent but that’s not what the restrictions on travel is about.

It’s not contradictory at all. It’s just highlighting the inconsistencies with our government

They think travel is the easy prey and haven’t got the balls to do anything internally because it would be unpopular

Sadly, as this thread has shown, not enough people see through this

@Butterflyfluff

Because they’re more susceptible to getting the virus and therefore higher risk.

So why can they do pretty much everything a vaccinated person can in the UK?

It’s difficult to enforce day to day. Note scrapping of covid passport for nightclubs etc.

Air travel already has procedures in place so easier to enforce.

Here come the new puritans loving a bit of punishment for non conformity. You think my friend who was hospitalised with the vaccine and is really worried about having a second dose should just suck it up, be a good girl and take whatever medication she has to at whatever risk if she wants to 'earn back' the right to travel to visit family. Even if she had natural immunity to Covid from a previous infection. Because yeah science. You think good old dead Lisa Shaw did the right thing for the moral majority, never mind, but can we not talk about it, it's 'not helpful'; I think she's that perfectly good reason why people want to exercise their right to choose what goes in their bodies. You know.....the reason you just said didn't exist.

Also sadly, there is fuck all in terms of opposition to the government so we are where we are

Is Starmer even still alive? I’ve literally not seen or heard anything from him for ages?

Air travel already has procedures in place so easier to enforce.

Exactly - so they focus on the easy stuff to look big and brave and lots of people fall for it, even though it’s not even scraping the surface