Accepting DSDad’s religious beliefs.

[Niffler92]

My step dad has always been a believer and attended church. His last church was lovely and open, all guitars and clapping. He’s started going to a new church who are homophobic as a gay person I find this hard, they campaign against equal marriage, adoption for gay people, gay families and education about gay issues in schools. This is very hard for me as a gay person who campaigned for these rights, he also has niece who has a baby with her wife.

They also are anti choice and anti sex and babies out of marriage. Oh and preach about having as many babies as ‘god gives you’. In his previous church I always said my DD could go if she wanted to, now it’d be a cold day in hell before I left her go to THAT church!

My mum condones and excuses what they preach by saying he doesn’t understand that that’s what they believe.

How do I reconcile my own beliefs with what his church preaches?

[quote isitworthitUK]@Simonjt you appear to be comparing being Muslim to being a paedophile or terrorist. I find that very distasteful. [/quote]
Can you also clarify if you would remain friends with peadophiles and terrorists? After all, they’re just different opinions.

It's all about context.
For example, if a new acquaintance started to voice views that I found offensive or that didn't really align with my own views, I probably wouldn't be working on building a relationship with them.

If a family member, for example I have a very elderly uncle who has said some questionable things and voiced some xenophobic opinions, does similar, I wouldn't cut them out of my life forever. I might question their views if I thought there was a chance of them changing/learning but other than that I would just change the subject, remove myself from the situation.

[quote isitworthitUK]@youvegottenminuteslynn I don't think it's comparable, with respect. I took it that the OP was talking about religion, her family members church.
I don't think being racist is a taught part of any religion though I may be wrong.

I think that black children should be able to be adopted by white parents and vice versa, however if you believed otherwise I wouldn't cut you out of my life. [/quote]
Why are racism and homophobia not comparable?

@Simonjt you can see exactly what you wrote. I'm not interested in engaging with racists or bigots thank you.

@HarrietsChariot

I think you need to accept that people are allowed to hold views that you disagree with or potentially find offensive. I have strong views on various "controversial" topics (eg the death penalty and firearms) but I'm happy to hear other peoples' points of view, provided they are reasonably polite and preferably have thought about why they have them.

It's how society works, no two people think exactly the same on every issue. Our society allows for freedom of thought, if not freedom of action.

Your case makes a good example. A few decades ago you would have been the "controversial" one in supporting gay marriage, gay adoption and gay rights in general. Many, perhaps most, people would have found your point of view ludicrous and offensive. But people were allowed to campaign and were allowed to hold the views you hold now, even when homosexuality was illegal. (It didn't get decriminalised because nobody wanted it to be, the law changed because people demanded it.)

What's happening with your DSD is simply the opposite, a person whose beliefs are out of step with the majority of people of the day. It's no more wrong for him to have his views than it is for you to have yours, provided that everyone acts within the boundaries of law. Law restricts actions, not beliefs.

If law could restrict thoughts then we'd be in a very dark place indeed. Live and let live, would be my advice. You don't have to agree with someone on every issue to get on with them.

What a silly post. This man has joined a church that, according to the OP, actively campaigns against gay marriage, gay adoption etc — they are acting to deprive other groups of their human rights, not just thinking their private homophobic thoughts.

[quote isitworthitUK]@Simonjt you can see exactly what you wrote. I'm not interested in engaging with racists or bigots thank you. [/quote]
Ah, so as I knew you are unable to find the imaginery things you claim I have written. Oddly enough the only person to link muslims to peadophiles or terrorists is you.

This Pakistani who grew up in a multifaith muslim and sikh household is extremely racist and most definitely a bigot 😂

Still waiting to hear if you’d remain friends with a peadophile or terrorist.

@Hvergelmir

As a black woman I do it think that the struggle of black people and gay people is comparable. In fact I think by banding these groups together they lose their individual focus.

Discrimination against gay people centres around morality and sexuality. Discrimination against black people (and other races I am just concentrating on my own) is racial and holds huge historical significance.

The fight and struggle of black people has particular historical basis and implication. Slavery has long lasting effects on our identities and culture.
Black people remain politically and economically oppressed, a systematic oppression.
I understand there are many fights still re gay rights, very valid ones too. However o don't like to compare them. Gay people are not economically oppressed, as gay rights advocates indicate they are our lawyers, doctors etc. Gay people represent main stream first world culture and have gained economic freedom and affluence.
The two, in my opinion do no good for either cause by being compared.

[quote isitworthitUK]@Hvergelmir

As a black woman I do it think that the struggle of black people and gay people is comparable. In fact I think by banding these groups together they lose their individual focus.

Discrimination against gay people centres around morality and sexuality. Discrimination against black people (and other races I am just concentrating on my own) is racial and holds huge historical significance.

The fight and struggle of black people has particular historical basis and implication. Slavery has long lasting effects on our identities and culture.
Black people remain politically and economically oppressed, a systematic oppression.
I understand there are many fights still re gay rights, very valid ones too. However o don't like to compare them. Gay people are not economically oppressed, as gay rights advocates indicate they are our lawyers, doctors etc. Gay people represent main stream first world culture and have gained economic freedom and affluence.
The two, in my opinion do no good for either cause by being compared.

[/quote]
Homosexuality was illegal in this country and gay men thrown in prison until relatively recently, and gay marriage was not legal in the whole of the UK until this year. We are still executed in many countries.

But this isn't about who historically has it worse. Its about why it would apparently be unacceptable for the OP's DSD to hold racist views, but its fine for them to hold homophobic ones.

And I don't think homophibia is about morality. It's about bigotry.

Its about why it would apparently be unacceptable for the OP's DSD to hold racist views, but its fine for them to hold homophobic ones
Possibly because you can like a homosexual person and at the same time not approve of them doing the things that make them homosexual. But you can't like a person of a different race and disapprove od them doing the things that make them that race, because there is no such thing!

@Bitofachinwag

Its about why it would apparently be unacceptable for the OP's DSD to hold racist views, but its fine for them to hold homophobic ones Possibly because you can like a homosexual person and at the same time not approve of them doing the things that make them homosexual. But you can't like a person of a different race and disapprove od them doing the things that make them that race, because there is no such thing!

People aren't gay because they "do homosexuality things". A person's sexuality isn't about choice.

I didn't say "homosexuality things". I was trying to find the right words. If I had said "have sex with people of the same sex" someone would have said that you don't have to have sex to be homosexual. It's not always easy to get the terminology right!

Just that, as long as everyone is respectful, we all have the right to have our own opinions and not be ostracised for them

You have the right to have any opinion you want. I have the right to not want to speak to you or spend time with you if you have opinions I find abhorrent.
If your opinion is that I should not be allowed to get married, should not be able to have children, should basically not exist...on what planet do you think I need to be respectful of your opinions and spend time in your company?

But there are no things that a person does that makes them homosexual. A person is gay or they're not, it's not chosen any more than race is.

@Bitofachinwag

Its about why it would apparently be unacceptable for the OP's DSD to hold racist views, but its fine for them to hold homophobic ones Possibly because you can like a homosexual person and at the same time not approve of them doing the things that make them homosexual. But you can't like a person of a different race and disapprove od them doing the things that make them that race, because there is no such thing!

No you can't! You're sat there having tea with someone who you think lives a fundamentally 'wrong' life.

There are a lot of people here tying themselves up in knots to justify their bigotry.

Ridiculous.

@Bitofachinwag

I didn't say "homosexuality things". I was trying to find the right words. If I had said "have sex with people of the same sex" someone would have said that you don't have to have sex to be homosexual. It's not always easy to get the terminology right!

That's because what you're saying is bollocks.

@Hvergelmir

But there are no things that a person does that makes them homosexual. A person is gay or they're not, it's not chosen any more than race is.

No things? Surely homosexual people have sex (if they have sex) with people of the same sex and heterosexual people have sex with people of the opposite sex. Having sex is something that you do. You don't have to have sex regardless of sexual orientation. Having sex is something you have chosen to do. But there is nothing in particular that white people do that make them white.

@Bitofachinwag

Its about why it would apparently be unacceptable for the OP's DSD to hold racist views, but its fine for them to hold homophobic ones Possibly because you can like a homosexual person and at the same time not approve of them doing the things that make them homosexual. But you can't like a person of a different race and disapprove od them doing the things that make them that race, because there is no such thing!

Woah woah woah.

So you're saying you can 'like' a gay person but genuinely believe they should... what, be celibate so as not to 'act' on who they are as a person when it comes to their sexuality? And that person is meant to think you respect them as a person?!

Gay people are gay. Black people are black.

Neither is a choice.

No things? Surely homosexual people have sex (if they have sex) with people of the same sex and heterosexual people have sex with people of the opposite sex. Having sex is something that you do. You don't have to have sex regardless of sexual orientation.

Ah so you think that being gay is ok.

But having a gay relationship is not ok.

Which means you don't really think being gay is ok after all.

You do realise that whether a gay person remains a virgin forever or shags hundred as of people, they are still gay? The act of sex doesn't define your sexuality.

Possibly because you can like a homosexual person and at the same time not approve of them doing the things that make them homosexual. But you can't like a person of a different race and disapprove od them doing the things that make them that race, because there is no such thing!

The issue here is that you're trying to equate 'doing gay things' with 'doing (insert race here) things'. That isn't a a comparison people are making because it doesn't make any sense. They aren't comparing peoples responses to behaviours / acts, they're comparing peoples responses to innate, unchangeable identity. So:

You cannot truly respect a homosexual person if you are homophobic.

You cannot truly respect a black personality if you are racist.

That's the equivalence. The being something, not the doing something.

Gay people who don't have sex, or have sex with the opposite sex, are still gay. There is nothing gay people do to make them gay. Not that homophobia would be justified if it was based on choice.

What about people who are against interracial relationships. Who want them to be illegal. Should their beliefs be respected?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

No things? Surely homosexual people have sex (if they have sex) with people of the same sex and heterosexual people have sex with people of the opposite sex. Having sex is something that you do. You don't have to have sex regardless of sexual orientation.

Ah so you think that being gay is ok.

But having a gay relationship is not ok.

Which means you don't really think being gay is ok after all.

You do realise that whether a gay person remains a virgin forever or shags hundred as of people, they are still gay? The act of sex doesn't define your sexuality.

I wasn't talking about what I think. I was replying to a post upthread.

@isitworthitUK

It's all about context. For example, if a new acquaintance started to voice views that I found offensive or that didn't really align with my own views, I probably wouldn't be working on building a relationship with them.

If a family member, for example I have a very elderly uncle who has said some questionable things and voiced some xenophobic opinions, does similar, I wouldn't cut them out of my life forever. I might question their views if I thought there was a chance of them changing/learning but other than that I would just change the subject, remove myself from the situation.

Blessed are the peacemakers

The issue here is that you're trying to equate 'doing gay things' with 'doing (insert race here) things'. That isn't a a comparison people are making because it doesn't make any sense.
Yes that's what I am saying. It's not the same thing. I was replying to another post,

@Bitofachinwag

The issue here is that you're trying to equate 'doing gay things' with 'doing (insert race here) things'. That isn't a a comparison people are making because it doesn't make any sense. Yes that's what I am saying. It's not the same thing. I was replying to another post,

I'm confused. You absolutely did say this:

Possibly because you can like a homosexual person and at the same time not approve of them doing the things that make them homosexual.

If we assume that to 'like' someone you respect them as a person, then no you can't respect someone homosexual and also disapprove of them having relationships. That is utterly disrespectful to them as it requires them to live a life of celibacy and an absence of romantic love simply because they are born gay.

For clarity, when I say you in my previous paragraph I'm not saying 'you' literally, I'm saying the hypothetical 'you' in the scenario you proposed that I've bolded above.

@Bitofachinwag

The issue here is that you're trying to equate 'doing gay things' with 'doing (insert race here) things'. That isn't a a comparison people are making because it doesn't make any sense. Yes that's what I am saying. It's not the same thing. I was replying to another post,

But you were trying to say that homophobia is justifiable but racism isn't, weren't you? When both race and sexual orientation are innate characteristics.