to think this workplace situation is completely inappropriate?

[Lu781]

Man in senior management position, mid 40s. Was previously responsible for training and mentoring junior member of staff, but once she had moved to another department (but still a trainee) instigated a sexual relationship with her, despite his position within the company and living with a woman (claimed it was a platonic relationship)

The junior - early 20s but very naive/ sexually and emotionally inexperienced, had never had a boyfriend nor had sex (or gone further than kissing).

The 'relationship' ended after a few months when he decided she was too young for him, after which the junior ended up out of a job. Not as a direct result, but it certainly didn't help matters.

Was this inappropriate on his part? (or indeed both their parts?)

Oh I know he wasn't married to this woman. He was married once prior to that and divorced. The woman he lived with at the time I knew him he told me was an ex who was going to move out and they were living under the same roof but separately. I know she did subsequently move out about a year later so there may have been a grain of truth in it. Of course I'd be more sceptical and ask more questions now rather than just taking the information at face value.

I don't think I necessarily was destined to have my heart broken. If I'd met someone nice, my own age and who liked me and wanted a relationship who knows what might have happened? Just before all this happened I met a nice chap through friends who had studied super hard (got a 1st from Cambridge ) and never had a girlfriend. Friends thought he was perfect for me, and we had a mutual attraction, we did arrange a date but I had to cancel for the aforementioned work drinks, and of course then never rearranged. He met someone soon after and they're now married. Not saying that would have been the right outcome for me or even that would have happened but I think he would have represented a much gentler introduction to the dating world.

Op, I think you’re convinced this was abuse and some of what you write is tangled up. What is it you hope to achieve here by asking if it’s inappropriate as you are so sure and arguing your point it was not just inappropriate it was abuse.

@NotPersephone no, after I had my DC I moved to an in house role outside London. Totally different and much healthier, in every sense, culture. Lots of women in senior roles. Am very happy here, its a much better fit for me.

"I really hope the SRA investigations put an end to partners thinking they’re Billy Big Bollocks because they get to fuck trainees younger than their daughters - it’s a total disgrace."

Sadly I don't think the SRA will ever change the above. They are far more interested in collecting practising certificate fees and bullying poor trainee solicitors/junior lawyers who happen to mistakenly lose confidential data.......
And male partners of big firms well know it.

I'm concerned at your therapists approach. They've made you view yourself as a victim of grooming when in reality you were just young and naive.

"after I had my DC I moved to an in house role"

are you in a relationship with the father of your child now?

"Just before all this happened I met a nice chap through friends who had studied super hard (got a 1st from Cambridge ) and never had a girlfriend. Friends thought he was perfect for me, and we had a mutual attraction, we did arrange a date but I had to cancel for the aforementioned work drinks, and of course then never rearranged. He met someone soon after and they're now married. "

There is an bit of a tone of fate/romantic fairytales about the above - again not wanting to be too cynical but believing too much in "the one who got away" type thinking about relationships is possibly not too healthy either.

@Lu781

Oh I know he wasn't married to this woman. He was married once prior to that and divorced. The woman he lived with at the time I knew him he told me was an ex who was going to move out and they were living under the same roof but separately. I know she did subsequently move out about a year later so there may have been a grain of truth in it. Of course I'd be more sceptical and ask more questions now rather than just taking the information at face value.

I don't think I necessarily was destined to have my heart broken. If I'd met someone nice, my own age and who liked me and wanted a relationship who knows what might have happened? Just before all this happened I met a nice chap through friends who had studied super hard (got a 1st from Cambridge ) and never had a girlfriend. Friends thought he was perfect for me, and we had a mutual attraction, we did arrange a date but I had to cancel for the aforementioned work drinks, and of course then never rearranged. He met someone soon after and they're now married. Not saying that would have been the right outcome for me or even that would have happened but I think he would have represented a much gentler introduction to the dating world.

Most people's first relationships are unsuitable. Yours happened when you were older and thus had a bigger impact - but it's keeping with the pattern nonetheless. I'm very sorry for what happened to you and unlike most posters think he was inappropriate (even if you had said no - he would have made life difficult for you) but you seem to want to pin the blame on him for a lot of things that have happened since.

No, DCs father and I were never in a relationship. They don't have any contact.

I don't think of the Cambridge guy as the one who got away - I don't think I would have married him or even any relationship would have lasted more than a few months but I would have been starting my dating life from a more even position, which i think is more akin to most peoples early experiences. Of course that's by the by and I'm generally happy with my life (albeit a few issues I'm working through in therapy) as it is now, even though getting here may not have been the smoothest ride.

Personally (and this is just my opinion and I am quite old) I think if you reached a conclusion in your reflections about this law firm partner which focusses on the toxic nature of PP law firms (both the acute power in balances which continue to exist there as alluded to on this thread but more importantly the extremely extremely long hours culture which also persists) that might be a more healthy way of understanding what happened to you.
Rather than look at it retrospectively through a blame lens. The #metoo movement has resulted in a lot of retrospective reviewing of history. That does not mean what he did was necessarily right in terms of professional conduct.

It does sound like you have grown as a person to start to think that age gap / power inbalance relationships might not be the right thing for you tho.

Your updates do make things clearer OP and I stand by my view that it was indeed inappropriate.

My daughter got a first in her degree but was constantly hit upon by lecturers and she told them she was gay. In reality all she wanted was to get her first, which she did through hard work. But she told me it was relentless like she was to be a mark on their bedpost.

She is now happily living with her partner (male, not that that means anything) and they are great together plus she also has a well paid position that she loves.

I would move on most certainly. Always think that he was the shit and you were played. However, I still think that if he had to give you a reference then you do have a case against him if you wish to take it further.

I know she did subsequently move out about a year later so there may have been a grain of truth in it

A year later? People in his income range don't have roommates unless they want them. He'd have just paid for a place for her well before the year mark, if only to avoid having to convince future prospects that she was just a roommate rather than a girlfriend.

I hestitate to say it (and maybe this is me making too many generalisations) but the following would definitely have been a red flag for me if it was disclosed to me at the start of a relationship.

"Oh I know he wasn't married to this woman. He was married once prior to that and divorced. The woman he lived with at the time I knew him he told me was an ex "

i.e. multiple unsuccessful relationships. The common denominator is him.

@Namechangeapologies

I hestitate to say it (and maybe this is me making too many generalisations) but the following would definitely have been a red flag for me if it was disclosed to me at the start of a relationship.

"Oh I know he wasn't married to this woman. He was married once prior to that and divorced. The woman he lived with at the time I knew him he told me was an ex "

i.e. multiple unsuccessful relationships. The common denominator is him.

Mid 40s with 2 unsuccessful relationships? Get a grip.

He was senior management. She was a trainee.

It wasn't abuse of a minor, nor was it a sexual offence or grooming since she's an adult.

It's very definitely the height of unprofessionalism and a flagrant abuse of position.

girlmom21

in light of this thread and the OP at least 3 failed relationships by mid 40s and we don't know whether there were infact more as OP only says that he was living with "an" ex (there might have been more than one ex after he divorced his wife).

@Namechangeapologies

girlmom21

in light of this thread and the OP at least 3 failed relationships by mid 40s and we don't know whether there were infact more as OP only says that he was living with "an" ex (there might have been more than one ex after he divorced his wife).

I had way more than three "failed relationships" when I got married in my 30s. Is that not normal?

But you weren't a victim. It's incredibly concerning your therapist is trying to push that view on you.
You were going an naive - not groomed and abused by this man.
I really don't understand- there was an age gap and he broke up with you, and you were gutted. That is literally all that happened. There's no need to view yourself as a victim of anything at all. It's making this man out to be some kind of predator. At 23 you were a grown adult in a consenting relationship. I really think you need to move on, and see a different therapist!

*young and naive

@Lu781

I take great pains usually to present myself as not the victim, I am always the person who copes with everything, I don't expect people to feel sorry for me and I rarely feel sorry for myself. My therapist has encouraged me to see that its not always down to me, to blame myself exclusively, sometimes like in this situation its actually OK to think I was the victim.

I wasn't a typical 20 something; I think someone less naive, more worldly wise would either have instinctively or deliberately rebuffed any early overtures whereas it all went over my head, or of course would already have had a boyfriend/ been in a relationship so I don't think he would have gone there. I think what he liked about me was that although bright, I was naive and absolutely adored him. I'm sure it appealed to his vanity.

He encouraged me to dress differently, lots of maxi dresses, high necklines, long flowing layers etc (my usual style was mini/ bodycon dresses - outside work I should add!). Said it was more flattering although I don't know if that was true or just that it made me look older/ attracted less attention?

I've never had another workplace relationship since so you could say I learned to avoid it. Nor one with anyone who had any sort of power or advantage over me.

Why does "blame" and "victim" have to come into it? Obviously there might be blame and their might be a victim but you seem to think (or maybe the therapist thinks) that it has to be that way. Maybe it was a brief romance that didn't work out. Lots of relationships don't, particularly first relationships. It's a learning thing.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

He was senior management. She was a trainee.

It wasn't abuse of a minor, nor was it a sexual offence or grooming since she's an adult.

It's very definitely the height of unprofessionalism and a flagrant abuse of position.

I think if a 23 year old woman at the end of a night out hugs a man and thanks him for being supportive or whatever the man might misunderstand. Maybe he misread the signals but that doesn't make it an abuse of position.

PurpleOkapi of course I am not making a judgement about three failed relationships. I am simply asking whether someone who has multiple successive and overlapping relationships which don't go anywhere is maybe someone to be wary of depending on the circumstances.

"Maybe he misread the signals but that doesn't make it an abuse of position"
As OP's supervisor and senior in a professional capacity he was in a position of trust and a lot of posts on this thread suggest that he used just that - his position as her mentor - to take the existing work relationship he had with her to another level. That of itself is a form of abuse. It might not be in the category that people might otherwise consider it to be "child abuse" (as seems to be the conclusion being jumped to here) analogous to a teacher pupil type situation. Of course she was in her 20s as has been repeated many times on this thread. But that does not cancel out the fact that starting up a relationship in these circumstances was not the result of some kind of abuse of a position of power for which I think OP should be able to feel rightly agrieved.

I do think he was wrong to do what he did. Really he should have known better than to compromise both of us if it really was just s meaningless shag.

The hug was just a hug. I wasn't trying to give him the green light, god I had no idea how to even give a green light, and I certainly wasn't trying to send him a signal like that. I'd had quite a difficult start to my training contract, I'd found the expectations quite tough, and I was also quite emotionally bruised from my bereavement. But when I moved to his practice area and particularly when sitting with him, I'd really felt it all click into place and we'd got on really well too. And that was all the hug was - a gesture of thanks.

At the time when he said he'd thought how pretty I was on the first day I joined (they had a big 'meet the partners' lunch for us, and he remembered what l'd been wearing) I thought how romantic -I'd experienced a lot of unrequited love by that time so it ticked all my boxes, but now I just think eww, either it was just a line to reel me in, or if he meant it, that's no better because it meant it wasn't just a moment of madness he'd been thinking about it for over a year.

As a wise person once said, you live and learn.

it wasn't just a moment of madness he'd been thinking about it for over a year.

Have you ever thought that maybe he genuinely did just really like you and kept his distance for so long because he knew it was inappropriate, and then when you hugged him and were no longer his trainee he just thought 'fuck it - what do I have to lose?'

Yeah he should have known better than to mix business and pleasure but so should you. He may well have known they weren't going to keep you on so might have thought it wasn't as inappropriate as it would be if you were staying.

You also say you experienced a lot of unrequited love before him but that doesn't really match up with the naive victim routine?