to think this workplace situation is completely inappropriate?

[Lu781]

Man in senior management position, mid 40s. Was previously responsible for training and mentoring junior member of staff, but once she had moved to another department (but still a trainee) instigated a sexual relationship with her, despite his position within the company and living with a woman (claimed it was a platonic relationship)

The junior - early 20s but very naive/ sexually and emotionally inexperienced, had never had a boyfriend nor had sex (or gone further than kissing).

The 'relationship' ended after a few months when he decided she was too young for him, after which the junior ended up out of a job. Not as a direct result, but it certainly didn't help matters.

Was this inappropriate on his part? (or indeed both their parts?)

He's a bit of a creep pursuing a partner where there's a clear power imbalance, but there's nothing illegal here.

I don't think the romantic inexperience of the woman is relevent tbh.

Sorry, hit post rather than return.

Yes I am the woman in question, albeit this is all some years ago now.

It was law, he was the partner supervising my training contract, and I had already completed my seat with him when it started. Prior to that we had spent 6 months sharing an office and he had always been very approachable with me, taken a real interest in me and my life which none of the other partners did. He also refused to take another trainee, keeping me on in that seat beyond my usual time. Which then, I thought was really kind of him as it was the area of law I wanted to specialise in. I had no romantic designs on him at that time. We'd also both lost a parent at 20/21 so spoke often about that too.

I was absolutely broken hearted when it ended, and it took me a long time to get over.

I spoke to a friend about it and her instant reaction was that I had in effect been groomed. I have recently started therapy and in discussing past relationships my therapist was also quite shocked by it and asked whether I had not thought his interest in me and engaging in a relationship was inappropriate given the very obvious power imbalance and additionally my inexperience...and this has made me go back over it and view it differently.

As I get older I'm also more horrified by the idea of a 20+year age gap, especially when I wasn't the typical 23year old I was very unworldly.

@MsHedgehog

It’s posts like this that are detrimental to women... a grown woman happy to get into a relationship. Doesn’t work out the way she hoped and now there’s a suggestion she was groomed. Really?!

Surely though the issue is not just that it didn't work out the way she wanted but that she lost her job and the two things might be linked. In which case the ill-advised relationship would have cost the woman far more than the man, who already held a lot more power than her. So, she may have been daft to enter the relationship (as was he) but that shouldn't affect her job prospects any more than it affects his

Sorry I should have said I spoke to a friend about it last year, we were discussing workplace relationships - I didn't know her at the time all this happened.

@Lu781

Sorry, hit post rather than return.

Yes I am the woman in question, albeit this is all some years ago now.

It was law, he was the partner supervising my training contract, and I had already completed my seat with him when it started. Prior to that we had spent 6 months sharing an office and he had always been very approachable with me, taken a real interest in me and my life which none of the other partners did. He also refused to take another trainee, keeping me on in that seat beyond my usual time. Which then, I thought was really kind of him as it was the area of law I wanted to specialise in. I had no romantic designs on him at that time. We'd also both lost a parent at 20/21 so spoke often about that too.

I was absolutely broken hearted when it ended, and it took me a long time to get over.

I spoke to a friend about it and her instant reaction was that I had in effect been groomed. I have recently started therapy and in discussing past relationships my therapist was also quite shocked by it and asked whether I had not thought his interest in me and engaging in a relationship was inappropriate given the very obvious power imbalance and additionally my inexperience...and this has made me go back over it and view it differently.

As I get older I'm also more horrified by the idea of a 20+year age gap, especially when I wasn't the typical 23year old I was very unworldly.

I'm sorry this has affected you negatively OP. Personally I wouldn't see it as grooming because you weren't underage and I'm not sure there is much to be gained for you, now, from thinking of it as grooming. But clearly there was a big power imbalance and hopefully reflecting on it all has helped you to know what you do and don't want in a relationship.

The bigger issue for me would be whether you felt the relationship and the ending of it played a part in your losing your job. How did that come about?

It's inappropriate because he had a partner, but in terms of the work situation, no, not at all.

Loads of people meet their DP at work. Unless you have a policy which forbids it, most people just crack on with colleagues.

I'm also not clear whether the man in question actually had a partner or it really was a platonic house mate and whether, OP, you found out while you were in a relationship that he'd lied about it.

@MsHedgehog

It’s posts like this that are detrimental to women... a grown woman happy to get into a relationship. Doesn’t work out the way she hoped and now there’s a suggestion she was groomed. Really?!

No. What's detrimental to women is the assumption that anybody over the age of 18 is equally equipped, emotionally, to embark on a sexual relationship. The law states the 16 is the age of consent in the UK, but that's just the age at which you cease to be protected by the legal assumption that you have been raped. It's not the age at which everyone is magically able to embark upon a happy, no-regrets sex life.

There is too much pressure on young people to start having sex asap. And too much emphasis on the parties both being "adults" rather than the facts of the situation as they took place.

People need to have more respect for one another, and an older / more experienced adult should take extra care when "initiating" a younger / less experienced adult into his/her sexuality.

You were an adult woman, well into your 20's who chose to have a relationship with a married man at work.

He was a sleeze, and probably wasn't honest about his intention that you were just another temporary "bit on the side".

Both adults lacking in sense and/or morals. Don't see how it is anything to do with the workplace, maybe if you were only 16, but not a 23 year old woman.

Regardless of relationship experience and how attentive he was, a 23 year old knows having a relationship with an older married man isn't clever. Fair enough regret it, I regret some of my relationships too and in hindsight should have avoided them, but you aren't doing yourself any favours by trying to make it something it wasn't or yourself a pseudo-victim.

I'd never had a boyfriend of any kind, never been on a date. Until I was 14/15 I still had dolls and a dolls house which I played with most days

I had my first kiss at a uni ball when I was 19, but never progressed beyond that until him. I was incredibly idealistic, naive - emotionally at the time I was probably where most people are at 15-16.

Add that to the fact he was in a position of power and I do now feel quite uncomfortable with it.

I agree with a pp that he was probably a creepy player and you got played. I don't think it's any more than that. Doesn't appear that you were groomed. You're hurt about what happened and it's not wrong to feel like that, but I think you need to move on. I'm sure he has.

It was inappropriate. Relationships like these can actually have a negative mental impact on women for years after. You have my sympathy.

@Lu871 Did he know all this about you? That of course adds to the sleaze factor if so but it's still not grooming. If you were an adult holding down a job then it would be hard to argue that you didn't know what you were doing.

You haven't answered re his role in your losing your job?

How did you lose your job?
He behaved inappropriately as he used his professional status to keep you around (in your seat longer than he should have) but you also did - assuming that the relationship following it was consensual. Very thin line

Also to add - if you knew that he lived with a woman you are also t blame. Naive isnt an excuse
He was a sleazeball though and his behaviour was morally wrong

This wouldn’t be an issue in my workplace assuming it was all conceptual. Lots of couples, they don’t line manage each other but are otherwise allowed.

Consensual obviously, not conceptual

I never really found out if they were together' or just sharing a house. He said at the time she was waiting to get a job to move out, and she did move out a year or so later so who knows?

As my training supervisor he was also my referee for future jobs which was awkward. I don't think it did me any favours. The area of law we worked in was small and most of the partners were horrendous gossips. I suspect word got round I'd shagged the boss and no one wanted to employ me. I eventually got a role in a different specialism.

I last saw him about 5 years after all this, at a charity event. I'd had a baby by then (from what was effectively a ONS, my great relationship choices continued!) and he said he'd heard I had a baby and congratulated me, not on the baby but on the fact I didn't 'look at all mumsy' .

He sounds a total arse from what you say! But it sounds as if it would be hard to prove that he affected your career negatively. If I've understood correctly, you didn't actually lose a job but weren't offered an NQT role in the same company.

I do sympathise. I had a similar experience early in my career. I didn't have an actual relationship but a much older colleague came onto me and I initially agreed to go on a date (while drunk at the office xmas party). But in the morning thought better of it and sent him a carefully worded email saying perhaps it'd be best if we didn't. He was a lot less supportive at work after that... but he wasn't my actual boss so it's a bit different.

So, I can understand you going over it now but I'm not sure what you'll gain by getting a bunch of people to say they agree that it was inappropriate i.e. are you thinking you'll actually get back in contact with him and try to establish some wrongdoing? If so, I fear it might all end up being very painful for you without actually achieving anything

As a trainee solicitor you do 2 years. Most firms keep you on St the end of the 2 years. I was the first trainee in about 10 years that they hadn't kept on.

So technically I didn't lose my job because they had to actively decide to retain me. However if I had been kept on, I would have been working in his practice area even if not directly for him which clearly would have been untenable.

No one was in the wrong. I would personally never mix business with pleasure but she wasn't his student. They are both gronw adults

Untenable for you or him? Do you think he was instrumental in your not being kept on? And have you got any evidence for that other than your instinct? I.e. did you get feedback when you were told you weren't going to be kept on and did it just come from him?

I don't hope to gain anything by it now other than emotionally to understand what went on.

It's more that until a year ago I had always seen it as a failed romance which I eventually got over a few years later. In the last year or so to have both a close friend and a therapist take the view it was so wrong and that I was effectively groomed made me see it very differently, and I'm still trying to process that really.

I don't think "grooming" is a term applied to adults without learning disabilities. It's a legal term isn't it, generally applying to underage children? Perhaps I'm wrong.

I agree the way these sleazy types act is the adult equivalent of grooming. It's manipulation and that's immoral behaviour, but it's not illegal. Otherwise no advertising would be legal, because that manipulates us all the time into buying stuff we don't need, wasting our money and filling our homes with tat.

I understand why you feel uncomfortable about the relationship OP. Being manipulated is horrible and it's not your fault. You were wronged and you need to come to terms with that. I know it was a long time ago but it's not "in the past" if you've only just started thinking about it now. So you will get over it, but it'll take time, because you've only just started the process. A delayed reaction, if you like.

There isn’t an entitlement to be kept on. More often than not, trainees are worse than they think they are and are baffled when they’re not kept on. Maybe they didn’t think you were good enough.

Also, you say you were the only one...how many vacancies for NQs were there? Were there more vacancies than trainees? You’re not just kept on or not...there has to be a job available in the speciality you want to go into.