to think this workplace situation is completely inappropriate?

[Lu781]

Man in senior management position, mid 40s. Was previously responsible for training and mentoring junior member of staff, but once she had moved to another department (but still a trainee) instigated a sexual relationship with her, despite his position within the company and living with a woman (claimed it was a platonic relationship)

The junior - early 20s but very naive/ sexually and emotionally inexperienced, had never had a boyfriend nor had sex (or gone further than kissing).

The 'relationship' ended after a few months when he decided she was too young for him, after which the junior ended up out of a job. Not as a direct result, but it certainly didn't help matters.

Was this inappropriate on his part? (or indeed both their parts?)

I'm a bit confused.
You say you connected as you'd both had loss of family members in 20/21 - but you also say you last saw him 5 yrs after this happened.

Have I misread something?

@Lu781

I don't hope to gain anything by it now other than emotionally to understand what went on.

It's more that until a year ago I had always seen it as a failed romance which I eventually got over a few years later. In the last year or so to have both a close friend and a therapist take the view it was so wrong and that I was effectively groomed made me see it very differently, and I'm still trying to process that really.

I can understand that. As the poster above has said, it can't be considered grooming because you were neither a child or an adult with a learning disability. But it's also very natural that you want to explore it now and might be feeling angry. The only thing I can suggest is that you could take some time to write to him and tell him that you feel strongly that he abused his position of power and that it had a very negative impact on you. It might help you to be able to move forward?

As to whether he knew much about me, yes we shared an office for 6 months and so he knew I didn't have a boyfriend, didn't go on dates etc, hadn't been in relationships at uni (we'd discussed this because he was telling me how he'd met his ex wife at uni etc)

When we had our first 'date' I told him that was my first ever date, and also explained about my sexual history or lack of, so he knew all of it from pretty much the get go.

@Lu781

Do you not think there's any difference between someone who has, say, been involved in a number of serious relationships since their teens, and another person who has had no such experiences, and just kissed a few guys at parties?

No, there has to come a time when you stop overprotecting people. I always used to like going out with older me (I say "used to" - my DH is 9 years older than I am !).

I had flings with two guys who were 7 years older than I was 19 and about 22 and met my husband when I was 23 and he was 32.

Ok none of those were in work contexts, but they could have been.

Obviously it's a misuse of your position to go out with someone if you are their boss, but it happens so often (my parents being an example!)

older meN not me.

It sounds as if you became very close so even if he is the sort of idiot who congratulates mothers on not looking 'mumsy' he might have some kind of conscience about how he behaved. So, like I say, maybe writing to him to get some of this off your chest could be helpful. There's always the risk that he'll totally ignore it but you might at least feel you've made him think about it.

@Tistheseason17

I'm a bit confused. You say you connected as you'd both had loss of family members in 20/21 - but you also say you last saw him 5 yrs after this happened.

Have I misread something?

Sorry if it wasn't clear - we were each aged 20-21 when we'd lost a parent. Obviously for me at that time it was very recent and I was still grieving as the death had been sudden and unexpected. His loss was 20 odd years earlier, but he seemed to understand exactly how I was feeling which none of my friends did at the time because they'd not been through it .

OP, I don't think you were groomed. I am also not great at choosing candidates for relationships, and I did have some unsuccessful relationships that probably could make a lot of eyes roll - including with my school teacher within two years of leaving school, and with the CEO of the company where I was an intern (also after I left). But, hand on heart, I cannot say I was groomed, abused or taken advantage of in any of them, albeit the temptation to do so is very strong. The ugly truth is that I am just shit at vetting candidates. Too trusting and too idealistic, which sounds like you are / were as well.

No, don't write to him. He will claim that it was consensual, you were an adult, how much he helped you and you are ungrateful. He will make you feel worse. Just learn from it and move on. Even now a man on a higher position could try it on with you, it never stops.

Both consenting adults.... nothing to see here

@Lu781

Sorry, hit post rather than return.

Yes I am the woman in question, albeit this is all some years ago now.

It was law, he was the partner supervising my training contract, and I had already completed my seat with him when it started. Prior to that we had spent 6 months sharing an office and he had always been very approachable with me, taken a real interest in me and my life which none of the other partners did. He also refused to take another trainee, keeping me on in that seat beyond my usual time. Which then, I thought was really kind of him as it was the area of law I wanted to specialise in. I had no romantic designs on him at that time. We'd also both lost a parent at 20/21 so spoke often about that too.

I was absolutely broken hearted when it ended, and it took me a long time to get over.

I spoke to a friend about it and her instant reaction was that I had in effect been groomed. I have recently started therapy and in discussing past relationships my therapist was also quite shocked by it and asked whether I had not thought his interest in me and engaging in a relationship was inappropriate given the very obvious power imbalance and additionally my inexperience...and this has made me go back over it and view it differently.

As I get older I'm also more horrified by the idea of a 20+year age gap, especially when I wasn't the typical 23year old I was very unworldly.

As a lawyer, completely inappropriate, but sadly very common historically and still now. I'm sorry this happened to you OP.

I had a relationship with an older man at a similar age. In retrospect, of course I see it differently, but at the time, I was very drawn to the advantages of his age. He was more worldly, very good in bed and made me feel very protected and cared for.

He certainly had the upper hand in the relationship but I knew that and I felt it kind of went with the territory of our dynamic. I can't say I was groomed. I made free choices.

It’s so depressing I could guess it was law and not kept on after training contract from your opening post! A trainee in a law firm is in a very vulnerable position. Akin to teacher/student albeit everyone over 21. A relationship between trainee and her supervisor is not a normal colleagues having an affair situation. Most (all) firms will have policies against it now.
You got special treatment re training as he fancied you (longer in seat you wanted) then when went split you didn’t get kept on - only one in 10 years is shocking, he was your referee and your reputation was sullied. Law is small world and gossipy.

This is slightly different scenario as kiss was unwanted but it’s shows views of regulator.

www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/gary-senior-case-an-extraordinary-abuse-of-position-says-sdt

I do know of a supervisor who married her male trainee but relationship wasn’t developed until he qualified. I knew of it - gossip - she worked at another firm and I then got chatting to her on a course and knew who she was by reputation.

Having read your updates, I think he behaved badly but I don’t think it’s anything legally or professionally, more emotionally/relationally, which is a good reason to not be in a relationship but not a good reason for him to lose his job.

I’m sorry you felt so ill equipped. why do you think that was?

Get some counselling but I’d leave the work aspect aside.

I think as other lawyers have also confirmed, this isn't ok and never really was. It would come close to gross misconduct now I suspect.

But OP, I don't think you should contact him. I don't think you'll get a response that will help you. He's never going to admit he took advantage of his position of power, and he probably doesn't think he did anything wrong.

Unless there are some major performance issues you're not mentioning, you didn't get taken on because of him.

You were inexperienced and maybe naive, but both censor information adults. You were not groomed. Workplace relationships happen all the time, whether people are married or living together or whatever. It was absolutely rife in one place I worked.

And I should say if he'd waited until after you'd qualified, it would be a different position entirely (but still ick!).

This is a good case to show that relationships bring in additional power dynamics within a workplace, that can’t really be ignored. It’s why some places have rules around it, even though as adults, we should be able to have a relationship with whoever we want.

However you just can’t get away from wondering how objective someone can be, if they are either the trainee, who is ‘favoured’ and enjoys a position above other trainees simply by sleeping with the boss. He is in a position of power because he can make decisions about that trainee. It does muddy the waters having a relationship.

It makes it uncomfortable for others who do not have that intimacy. Even if there is no obvious favouritism at work, there are always more subtle advantages for either party, and then when it breaks up there are questions and fall outs.

My father used to get hit on by women in his company, and he used to love the attention. Eventually went on to have affairs with women he hired. It doesn’t take long for the older, better paid person and younger, ambitious or favoured women scenario to turn seriously unhealthy on so many levels.

There were several partners who were real leches, the sort that talked to your breasts not your face or used a lot of innuendo. He wasn't (overtly) like that at all, he never made sexual comments, liked all the same music as me (or so he said), was very socially aware and conscious, involved with Amnesty, etc.

If he'd been an obvious creep I would have run a mile. I was actually quite scared of me generally. I think that's why his softly softly approach won me over.

Once we got together I was utterly smitten. I imagined living with him in his big Georgian townhouse, thought we'd get married. I'd even planned names for our children. That's how naive I was!

I am a solicitor and have worked in BigLaw (so to speak).
I think the entire profession has a massive track record (even now) of senior people (more or less always men) having sometimes repeated affairs with junior colleagues and/ or serial marriages.

I was also the subject of sexual advances when I was a trainee and I think the unique culture of the (private practice) legal profession makes it far from a simple "why did you not just reject his advances" / "you were an adult why didn't you say no if you didnt like it". Those types of choices are far more complicated to make in those circumstances.

Scared of MEN that should say. Not me!

www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/beckwith-misconduct-verdict-overturned-on-appeal-/5106589.article

This one was a married partner having consensual sex with a very junior solicitor colleague on a night out. Regulator initially found he had acted inappropriately but he appealed. It was a wake up for a lot of firms and most will have policies now to stop what happened to OP.