To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

Just a perspective from someone who has been involved in recruiting recently. I’ve noticed that young candidates are asking how often they can wfh and are rejecting jobs that don’t offer the opportunity. They’ve realised they don’t have to get on that treadmill of commuting every day, and wfh offers the opportunity to get up an hour later some days and finish in time to be able to attend a hobby in the evening. Young candidates (20s) were asking for 2 days wfh per week. Older candidates (30+) weren’t asking for that, perhaps because they’re used to the grind of commuting. But I certainly think we’re going to see the younger generation refusing to commute every day. Progressive businesses are already developing smaller offices with hot desks used by people who come in on different days.

Disagree. I have team members all over the uk. It makes no difference to me whether they’re in the office or not and it makes no difference to them whether I am.

I didn’t buy coffee or sandwiches regularly in the bad old commuting days so it’s not like the vendors are losing my custom.

My life is a bit monotonous WFH but the upside is massive - no horrible commute, increased ability to focus and do deep work without being surrounded by people discussing Love Island or football results, being able to do the school run, etc. Also, working in the office was monotonous too, just in a different way. It wasn’t fun or stimulating and I didn’t get nearly so much done.

I object massively to the pushing of people back to the office when they’ve proven they can work more productively from home - and the supporting media narrative is very pushy. WFH has enabled many industries to keep going at minimal individual risk during the pandemic and it’s brought many people great benefits.

It's interesting. I have seen managers go into full meltdown at not being able to see their staff - bums on seats and use it as a reason why they can't manage effectively and customer service slides .

Problem is they couldn't manage effectively in the office. The problem is the managers not WFH.

If your a decent manager you can manage without seeing someone day in and out and it can be done remotely but it requires work, rather than just seeing someone and assuming they are busy.

People always wanna take the easy way out it would seem.

WFH is a personal preference, I used to work from home pre pandemic but during it - the workload tripled as if to try and convince people no one was slacking. Madness. I never used to have back to back meetings in the office 8-6 during the pandemic it was a daily occurrence.
It really put me off but I think that companies assured in their staff will relax somewhat. We are all human at the end of the day

I think another poster said people will move from companies that won't change with the times and allow hybrid working. Those companies that wont adapt, won't survive because you need the youngsters to keep momentum going and they don't have the same views as most boomers ie "what work life balance" vs youngesters "I'm a human and I have needs outside of work"

The generational tide will polarise in companies. And in a recession it's not doing the same thing over and over that wins. It's being adaptable.

Hybrid gets my vote just because I like people. However this whole nonsense about the economy collapsing because of WFH is ridiculous because smart companies adapt. It's often spouted by people who have a vested invest in working in the office. Which is perfectly fine for that to be your preference. But your preference doesn't mean everyone's going to agree with it. People will make informed choices based on what's presented to them.

I wouldn't assume actually that a business that forces people back to the offices for no reason other than they prefer it that way is going to attracted the biggest or the best of the recruitment selection.

I say this all as a manager myself.

I have found that wfh has helped junior members of staff to think on their feet and not be so reliant on us more senior staff. In the office I constantly get questions that I know they can answer if they just took two seconds and thought about it.

IME the younger generations are very happy with WFH and hybrid and co-working spaces and the like. It's the older generation who have the bums on seats presentee mentality, and can't accept that things are changing.

Likewise local councils…. Only a local council would have been promoting and investing in a shopping mall in the last few years. Well before covid these were dying, yet my council were dead keen on a big new mall, “with the big name retailers” (heard with my own ears). Strewth.

That OP doesn't read like a placed post by someone with a political agenda at all

Well, that’s a load of Big Crap , @Thesandmanishere .

I can say with experience of both demographics that it is the exact opposite .

One of my friends had a huge MH crisis as she needs people, she is a huge extrovert and it affected her terribly. Another loves it because she had a 2 hour commute each way.
Part of choosing a career is going to be whether you can (or want to) wfh. Extroverts can purposely choose jobs that require you to be present (lots of jobs can’t wfh). Introverts or disabled people or parents can choose jobs that offer opportunities to wfh. In the long run I think people will get paid a bit more for jobs that can’t wfh.

The ideal for me would be a mix of both. I'm not working at present (company closed down) but before all of this, I had a truly terrible commute. I was doing one day a week at home, and that saved my sanity.
I can see the pros and cons as described here, by various posters. The knock on effects on both on family life and on the business world. Talking to a friend recently who has recruited a new team, and training people from home, has been very difficult, she said.

Choice and hybrid models where possible, may be the way forward.

...because what else are those WFH worrying about other than transport workers being made redundant and sandwich shops closing. Yes, that's exactly what people WFH are listing as their top 2 priorities in getting back to the office

Rather than childcare, commuting time and costs, environmental pollution - if this was a real OP, those would be mentioned.

I look forward to the day when a child, cat, dog or partner joining a work call is a rare occurrence again. It is unprofessional.

I include my family and pets in the above statement!

@DottyHarmer

Well, that’s a load of Big Crap , *@Thesandmanishere* .

I can say with experience of both demographics that it is the exact opposite .

Interesting can you expand on that ? I'm neither old or young so sit slam in the middle and what PP has said about the young and the older groups is bang on what I keep seeing ?

No judgement generally curious

My DH had been working from home since March of last year.

What he used to spend in the Pret next to his office he has been spending at our local artisan baker, local butcher , green grocer , second hand record shop. Our little high street is quite buzzy during the week now because lots of people are in the same position.

He makes sure he goes out for a half hour walk into town and back every day and has a routine of different shops he likes to visit.

He's been eating healthier food as a result and has lost almost two stone in weight ( as have I thanks to him preparing daily salads for us)

This week he has unusually been back in the office everyday ( the plan going forward is only two days a week) and I've been reminded how much harder life seems when he works in the office all week.

His commute takes just under two hours - dead time. He is far more productive at home ( we have a garden office thankfully) but he does prefer being able to see his clients face to face as although they can do business over Zoom with existing clients it's not the way to get new business in.

Our family life has improved beyond measure thanks to him WFH. I'm realising this week how bad things were before the pandemic so the future plan of two office days a week is a really good balance.

The thing is in the UK we are only interested in what suits us personally .
The big picture about redundant office space, service industries no longer needed jobs lost.
The mental impact on some people WHF no space unable to switch off and cost of utilities .
Lack of social interaction and mentoring at work .

People don't care about the big picture .
It's like the poster who loves WHF as has more time with baby fast forward 10 years sat in empty house with a screen for company and remotely managed will WFH be so attractive then .

Your issues with it seem very economical when it comes to not WFH. You've also mentioned the positives about the environmental aspect of WFH.

Environmental trumps economical every single time. If we don't have a planet to live on, what good is money? 🤷‍♀️

In terms of the impact on the economy, people will spend their money in other ways. Villages and local shops are likely to see an increase in sales as people WFM will be more likely to use them more now that they are staying locally 5 extra days per week.

Supermarkets must also have seen an increase in sales too as people will need more food when working at home - this all creates jobs too. They are just different types of roles.

People won’t stop spending just because they are at home, but they will change the way they spend. And supply for things will gradually align to the demand for them.

Public transport is a tricky one as it will have an impact on people who don’t drive and also when people want to use it to socialise but I’m not sure what can be done about that. If the demand isn’t there then it’s tricky.

(I’m not underestimating the devastation involved in people having to close businesses and people losing jobs in those business)

One of my friends had a huge MH crisis as she needs people, she is a huge extrovert and it affected her terribly

And the flip is these extraverts who need so much attention affectionately introverts MH with their constant dramas in the office.

I love it. It's changed my life for the better. I hope to never need to go back into the office

As a generalisation, older, settled people with a family love wfh.

Young people starting out, with no home of their own and no wide group of friends just round the corner find it hard.

And change has happened so quickly. One year everyone in the office, a year later and you’re in your bedroom not able to talk to a real person.

@EveningOverRooftops

If anything WFH and the pandemic as a whole have shown our city centre based shops and supermarket culture is anything but good.

If we’d had the small high street shops - for reference my local one is mostly takeaways, a pound shop type place, several charity shops and a post office - and less focus on big supermarkets the last 18mths would’ve been an entirely different experience for all of us.

It’s about time we started rethinking our retail setup, our supermarket set up to something that is much more sustainable overall.

You mean go back to the 70s and 80s before the identikit chain stores took over the High Street and huge supermarkets/retail parks caused thousands of small "corner" shops to close down.

Trouble is that the general public voted with their feet and gave their custom to the chain stores, supermarkets, etc. If we want to reverse that, WE, i.e. all shoppers have to change back to giving custom to the small/independents.

It's like the poster who loves WHF as has more time with baby fast forward 10 years sat in empty house with a screen for company and remotely managed will WFH be so attractive then
That’s the whole point of hybrid working. People can have the flexibility to do what suits them. Those who want to be in the office can, and those who want extra time at home and no commute can wfh. People might change their working patterns at different times in their lives, or depending on their personal circumstances, either with the same employer or by switching jobs. Much better than before, where you had to be in the office and fuck you if that doesn’t suit you personally.

@rwalker to solve those problems, we need to ensure people are paid enough (by law) to cover the extra costs of WFH whether that's physical equipment or utilities or even a desk in a co-working space if they don't have space for a private desk in their own home or apartment. We need better mental health provision in the NHS. We need to support people at work to have a better work/life balance so they have the time and head space to build relationships in their community (instead of the relationships forced on them at work).

Artificially supporting coffee shops and office space landlords is the stupidest and most short-sighted possible solution to these problems- and, in fact, doesn't solve them at all for most people, who have found their mental health and work-life balance immeasurably improved without a pointless forced and expensive commute to go do work they could have done better at home.

People based in London, Birmingham and Manchester in many high salary industries have always worked from home 2-3 days per week. The only difference now is that wfh has filtered down into low salary and even manual professions where it’s still new & needs honing and development.

For example I never realised that we could wfh for any part of our role in nursery based childcare but actually we are far more productive by shifting out daily progress updates for the kids to wfh staff. Staff like wfh 1 day a week too and considering how low salaries are in our field it’s a good hiring perk. I’m def keeping it.

@rwalker

The thing is in the UK we are only interested in what suits us personally . The big picture about redundant office space, service industries no longer needed jobs lost. The mental impact on some people WHF no space unable to switch off and cost of utilities . Lack of social interaction and mentoring at work .

People don't care about the big picture .
It's like the poster who loves WHF as has more time with baby fast forward 10 years sat in empty house with a screen for company and remotely managed will WFH be so attractive then .

Well that's a common truth only people interested in their situation.

The system as it were was always biased against particular people with families or anyone who can't do the normal 9-5. If Most of the statics are to be believed , many far to many chose flexibility over pay. That standard is now being challenged as actually it should be as it's been proven a lot more jobs actually can be done from home.

We can talk about being inclusive but really the normal state of play was never that.

Also assuming that once someone's toddler, dependant isn't around that people will prefer to be in the office is a dangerous bias lumping everyone into one category and ignoring the universal truth, some people just don't want to go to the office and if there's another choice. They would chose differently.

However