To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

We’ve been in the office once a week since last August , and now back 3 days a week. I am really loving it. I take just over an hour each way for my commute, and am obviously back to paying for diesel for that, etc., but I was honestly going nuts at home. I live alone, and the loneliness was incredible. I mean, I hate some of my workmates, but most of them are nice.
What does bother me with full time WAH is that the boundary between work and home had gone. It was too easy to work all evening, and/or weekend (the work was definitely there!) My dining table became my ad hic office, as I didn’t have room/good enough internet anywhere else. I was/am sick of looking at it.
At least in the office there’s something of a boundary. I think 2 or 3 days at home is perfect.

ILoveAllRainbowsx

I agree- but I have actually made some of my best business contacts at the local council gym.
I meet loads of self employed people during the day at my gyms, old and young, all taking advantage of the quiet daytime space to exercise.
Gyms and classes are great for business networking!

I live a 10 minute walk from my office so don't have a commute but I still much prefer working from home.

My office is freezing cold, smells and is like a cell. I hate sharing toilets with so many people (work in a university so there are thousands of students and staff).

At home I feel a lot cosier, and can get up and walk around when I want to. I feel like I sit so much more in the office.

Isn't the point really just that both employers and employees need to be and feel free to choose, rather than just blindly defaulting to the old model of work?

I have WFH for nearly 7 years and there is no chance I could go back. I would have hated as a 20 something though were most of my social life came through work! Choice...it should be about choice. Service industries like coffee shops with find their new model.

DH saves 3 hours a day on his commute in order to sit on the same global conference calls at home as he would have done in the office. If work allows he still takes a walk away from the home office to buy a coffee at one of our local coffee shops. If they need him to go in to onboard new talent or take part in team meetings he will. WFH works brilliantly for us.

Some enterprising type has just opened shared office facilities in our town centre, we now have people who haven't got a spare room to wfh in or just dont enjoy working alone sharing this space. The same group of people tend to hire at desk at different times so have started socialising locally spending money locally, making new friendships. They will have the water cooler chats with others in the space and talk over work problems so are learning from people outside their own organisation which brings in new ideas. Probably no different to the hot desking city office where your with members of a totally different team. This community space (hired so they do have to pay for the privilege but a tiny percentage of the price of the commute they would have paid) has been brilliant for our town and the people using it. More of these initiatives would mean that local people can stay working local part time, keeping some of their money local as well as getting their 'city' jobs levelling it up and giving everyone the best of both worlds. I presume there would be some concern about rivals working together and stealing information, poaching the best workers because you can see what others work ethic is, but that just means that employers have to up their game in ensuring staff loyalty and sercurity. Looks like a win win to me.

It seems like there are basically two competing factions - people who love working from home and want to do it forever, and people who hate working at home. The problem for the second group is that it costs a LOT of money to provide offices and office infrastructure, and companies are realising that they are just as productive without it - and just like that, offices as we know them will be gone.

There may be vestigial offices for occasional in-person meeting but even that will soon be handled at shared or rent-by-the day office space for all but the very largest of companies. This is going to completely change the face of British urban geography - levels of change that haven't been seen since the industrial revolution.

This will be opposed by the commercial office-space landlords (either directly or through investments) that fill the halls of government, but it's coming whether they like it or not. The ONLY way to stop it would be to legally mandate office working for the private sector - do we really think that will happen?

I have been working from home 100% of the time for 10 plus years. If I had the option of going into the office a few times a week, I would.

I am incredibly disciplined, and get through masses of work, but sometimes I feel a bit dead inside. If you're in an office, you're "at work" even if you are doing bugger all.

The novelty most definitely wears off.

Personally I hate working from home - as the OP says, it just leads to laziness and no line between work and home. Some people seem to love it though. I think you have to be quite strict with yourself on exercise and making time to socialise at some point during the working week though. My partner works from home (pre covid too), and has been steadily piling on weight as a result. He used to choose to go to the office just to get a cycle ride in, but now he doesn't even have the option.

I don’t think we should be forced to continue old fashioned ways of working just to support coffee shops and sandwich bars in the city centre. Public transport probably will reduce and more people will learn to drive - this has been happening for years, there are more cars on the roads than there were 50 years ago. You can’t stop progress just because it’s detrimental to a minority of people.

I work from home. This isn't a covid thing, I am self employed hence home is the only place I have to work. I hate it. I much preferred going to work, as when I was at work I wasn't expected to do everything else at home at the same time. Also, I never have a day off. I never switch off. There is no line between work and home life.

Everyone I know who has gone back either voluntarily or because they were told they had to is really happy. Even a friend who was vocal about not wanting to go back. No more wasting time due to systems issues, social interaction with colleagues, face to face conversation eliminating the need for several emails to clear a point, a proper lunch break, leaving work at work and switching off at the end of the day, improved efficiency so projects are actually getting finished etc. All very positive.

I’ve worked from home for many years, so it’s KR a new thing for me. Ideally i think a hybrid arrangement is ideal, at least one day a week in the office and the rest from home. How successful it is really depends on how much space you have. If you have a dedicated work space that you can close the door on at the end of the day, then that will be far less stressful than working from the dining table. Also, if there are young children at home with a SAH parent then that would be more challenging than managing school age children.

I do think people are still in the honeymoon period at the moment and we will see a gradual return to the office, at least for part of the week.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Personally I hate working from home - as the OP says, it just leads to laziness and no line between work and home. Some people seem to love it though. I think you have to be quite strict with yourself on exercise and making time to socialise at some point during the working week though. My partner works from home (pre covid too), and has been steadily piling on weight as a result. He used to choose to go to the office just to get a cycle ride in, but now he doesn't even have the option.

Human psychology around exercise is so strange. Like, your husband could easily fit in a bike ride in the time that he used to commute! He could do it every day, not just once a week! It could be any ride he wanted, on any route he wanted, and surely a shower at home afterwards would be better than awkwardly showering and changing in a grotty shared office shower. But somehow it can be impossible to motivate oneself to physical activity unless you're doing something else (like commuting) at the same time - physical activity as a goal in itself feels impossible sometimes. I'm not knocking him by the way, I'm exactly the same! I will purposely leave oat milk or bread off the Big Shop order just so I HAVE to walk or cycle the half-mile and back to the shop during the week because otherwise it's entirely possible I won't go outside at all.

I find it very easy to turn my laptop off at the end of the day and not think about it until the next morning. I understand that some people may not be like that. Pre covid we always had to take our laptops home for security so the temptation was already there.

@Wroxie - I don’t think you’re wrong.

But - “big bad landlords” are local councils (my council is very heavily invested in commercial property) and pension plans - maybe your pension plan. The upshot of empty commercial units is that council tax will have to soar and many pensions will take a hit.

I hate commuting - whether by train or car (or bus), not experiencing pushy aggressive cunts battling me for a tiny bit of space/perceived advantage is a massive boost to my mental health, as well as a benefit to the planet of me generating extra carbon and other emissions.

Not generating of course

I'm working in a hybrid model in the future and have started going back a day or so a week as I build up.

A couple of observations

• commuting, even when it's not busy, is horrible and tiring
• I get much less work done when I'm in the office as I start work later and leave earlier and also I'm talking to people all day
• I exercise less on the days I'm in the office
• I prefer spending my income in the area where I live which is mostly non-chain coffee shops, restaurants, bars and cafes

Also during the pandemic I've never ever worked in my pjs or not showered!

Haven’t read the full thread. I disagree, as I love WFH as a parent of 3 young DC, including twins it’s going to mean I can stay in work.

I just think you need to go about it in a certain way. For example, plan meet ups/ lunches with friends, go for a walk to exercise and get fresh air. Have a life outside of the house.

I actually think it would be a good opportunity to revive small towns and village coffee shops, as people can pop out locally on their lunch breaks. I would love to see that happen.

There isn't a "one size fits all" solution. I worked from home for several months, I was lucky enough to have a spare room to convert to an office.

I was so much more productive, I was available outside of my normal hours without arsing about getting a later train (or even available at a weekend), I didn't get disturbed, my anxiety was a million times better because there was some distance between my boss and me and now I am hybrid working it is not the same.

@Horriblewoman

I'm working in a hybrid model in the future and have started going back a day or so a week as I build up.

A couple of observations

• commuting, even when it's not busy, is horrible and tiring
• I get much less work done when I'm in the office as I start work later and leave earlier and also I'm talking to people all day
• I exercise less on the days I'm in the office
• I prefer spending my income in the area where I live which is mostly non-chain coffee shops, restaurants, bars and cafes

Also during the pandemic I've never ever worked in my pjs or not showered!

This!

I don't get people who don't shower in the morning when wfh - you would hopefully do it if you were going into work so sitting there unshowered in pyjamas seems a little scummy!

The other issue we have is that parents with young children don't always put them in childcare when working from home. (Not talking about lockdown, but now when more people are returning to the office).

So Zoom calls are interrupted by the DC, and they spend more time having to look after them than working. Which means they either have to work in the evenings or someone else has to pick up the slack. So it is harder for them and impacts the rest of the team.

It’s so circumstantial, it’s obviously bad for city centres. One of my friends had a huge MH crisis as she needs people, she is a huge extrovert and it affected her terribly. Another loves it because she had a 2 hour commute each way. DH was perfectly happy but he could have a room to himself as an office and we have one adult DS at home.

DH works mainly from home but also goes in, I think a mixture is probably for the best. I’m sure some people have taken advantage but many will have worked harder, there is no one size fits all.

Pros for me:

No longer have to get up at 5.30am to be in the office for 7am. I'm much less tired.

DC don't have to get up early to be dropped at breakfast club. They are much less tired.

I was at home when DS started getting himself to/from school when he started Y7 last year, so an easy transition.

I can pop out to collect from sports matches that get back at 4.30pm/5pm etc. This was a logistical nightmare when I was office based FT. Ditto having plumbers round/deliveries/dentists appointments/taking the car in for a service etc.

I've saved a fortune on commuting costs.

I've lost 2 stone because I can go to the gym in the evenings rather than commuting and getting home at 8pm. I also eat a healthier lunch as I'm not eating 600 calorie sandwiches from Pret every day, and/or fish and chips from the canteen on Fridays.

Cons

My house is an absolute tip and there is noticeable wear and tear as I'm in it all day.

Energy costs, heating, electricity etc are higher. Food bill is a bit less as it's cheaper to eat at home, rather than buying lunch/coffees.

I've pulled DD out of breakfast club, as I can drop her at school now. Good for me, but not so much for wraparound club.

I get distracted by home chores. Although if I have an urgent deadline, I can work late into the evening or weekends if necessary. Ordinarily, I'd have to stay in the office until midnight as we had no WFH capability. I didn't even have a laptop.

I feel isolated and miss my colleagues. I don't feel we're as productive as a team without the informal interactions, although when I have to write a paper, work on a complicated spreadsheet, it is easier to focus without office noise.

DH and I spend far too much time together than is healthy.

I've become quite introverted, without the usual office socialising.

We''ll be going back to the office 2-3 days, which I think will be perfect for me and strike a good balance.

The productivity thing is interesting. Most “interruptions” when I’m in the office are work related - my colleagues asking me a question or wanting to discuss something. It can stop the flow of my individual pieces of work so may make them take longer. But it means my colleagues’ queries are resolved far more quickly and easily than if they had to email me or have a Teams call. So the work of the team as a whole functions better. It’s hard sometimes for individuals to judge productivity because unless they’re seeing the overall picture they don’t necessarily appreciate how their decisions are impacting on the wider team.

I’m not sure I really get to complain about “interruptions” when they are a necessary part of my job.

@DottyHarmer you're right, and taxes/business rates/social care need to change just as drastically as urban geography - the current system relies on income that will simply cease to exist. It wouldn't be impossible for real thinkers and brave policy-makers to change the tax and investment landscape to recover the money that will (if nothing is changed) just go back into profits of large multi-national companies, but unfortunately "real thinkers" and "brave policy-makers" are not to be found in the current government (nor in any that are currently waiting in the wings). It's scary to think about, especially as someone who hoped to retire a bit early in about ten years.

YANBU but I am glad everyone has had the chance to try it. I've WFH since graduating in 2012, and people thought I was living the dream and that they could just pop in whenever they felt like it. This last year has opened their eyes to the reality of it.