To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

I agree there are negative aspects to wfh - I go for a walk every day and have still gained weight, it's difficult to replicate that commute rush and lack of nearby kitchen! But overall I think the pandemic has forced a change that would have happened organically anyway over the next 10 years. I've worked at home regularly for years and it was starting to feel completely daft coming into the office when my job child just as easily be done at home. That was only the case in the last five years or so as technology improved.

*could not child!

@niceupthedanceagain

I think it's great that excessive consumerism and consumption is being challenged. Public transport is so overpriced perhaps it will force a funding rethink. I think a rethink of all the ways society functions is due (but probably won't happen because people want to get back to normal hamster wheel life).

I agree with this. I find WFH better and has slashed my carbon footprint but I also get that WFH is a tough adjustment for some people, and it helps if you have a comfortable home to work from and not a poky place that is boiling in summer and a fortune to heat in winter.

Can I just say guys - I’m not talking to you personally

If you walk to work and wouldn’t dream of something so decadent as buying a sandwich or coffee fair enough, but can you not see a lot of people did?

I agree. It also causes friction within organisations too. I can’t work from home and have been commuting into work continuously and I am starting to get very pissed off with wfh colleague who never seem to reply to emails or take ages to do things and make many more mistakes than before. I can’t just pop and see the finance team anymore for example. Regular staff briefings are all about them wanting to keep their wfh perks and complaining with no thoughts at all for their non wfh colleagues.
It’s causing fractures within teams too.
Overall not good for future goodwill, team building imo.

Having just returned to the office I am very much coming down on the side of working from home.

Office life and commuting is so stressful and so much less productive. I get loads more done at home and I have far fewer extra worries, things to keep track of, people to deal with etc.

It's not my job to prop up Pret but I have their monthly subscription so I'm doing my bit there!

I think there is a balance. I am saving in petrol and buying coffee/lunches but I am not saving it completely we spend it elsewhere. Takeaway meals, dinners, DIY.

I agree it is not good to be at home all the time and there is lots of information transfer from being in same office as colleagues, as well as the social benefits of being with other people.

At the start I couldn't see my laptop without checking, now I do log off and stay off when outside working hours.

I think/hope there is a middle ground though it may be difficult to get to. That said if I had to choose full time office or full time WFH I would prefer WFH despite the downsides.

@PosiePerkinPootleFlump

It's shit for young people who have no middle management to learn from properly because they are all sitting at home. And really selfish on the part of people who learned loads from interacting with colleagues when they were more junior, but now can't be arsed to go in to help develop more junior staff.

I’ve got this at the moment. I am managing a very young team; and although they’re fantastic it’s noticeable that their skills aren’t really up to a standard you’d expect if we’d been in the office the whole time.

I’ve really had to be creative to come up with opportunities for them to check in and keep engaged and learning but it’s really difficult to replicate the office environment where they’d have so many more opportunities.

I also feel really sorry for the ones working from their rooms in grotty house shares!

Really looking forward to being back in the office more with them so we can turbo charge everything a bit!

I think there's several things to think about. And I do think hybrid is best.

Public transport has massive issues. Always have had. In cities its lack of capacity while charging quite a bit of money. Where I live on the outskirts of 2 cities but in a small fairly poor town, pu kic transport is so appalling no can rely on it for work. It doesn't 3eally work for a lot of people, including the people who can't drive.

Coffee shops, I feel a bit 'meh' about. They are mostly huge chains, not small businesses. Outside of cities most people don't pass a coffee shop on a morning commute. As it stands, this issue has been hugely blown up since July 2020 when Boris and friends were trying to convince people you had to go back to work or the economy would shrivel to the size of a raisin if we didn't buy a Starbucks.

The main issue I have is that for years people have been saying that 2 working parents and long days doing breakfast club after school club isn't great for kids or the family unit. People talk alot how kids would benefit from their parents being at pick up and drop off more. More family meals, more time as a family. Or long hours and long commutes on bad transport contribute to stress, with them can cause health issues and generally, reduce quality of life for people

For lots of people who work and commute into cities, that wasnt possible. The economy seemed to be surviving only by making people travel everyday for set hours, impacting their mental and physical health and that of their kids.

If office workers really have such a huge impact on the economy, surely helping g them manage the work life balance is a good thing for the economy.

There doesn't need to be acceptance that wfh doesn't work in every job. But also acceptance that sometimes it's not working because the employer has no interest in making things better. Massive companies and governement departments have been riding 'we are taking longer due to caring about our staff and letting them work from home' when actuly, there's other factors. Saving money by not replacing staff for example. I am 100% sure that if everyone went back to office tomorrow, customer service levels won't rise. But wfh definitely doesn't work in every job. I agree with that.

You do may have become unhealthy, but office hours and commutes are often not great for health. It all depends on the person. I can't say much has change for me. But several people I know have taken up running at lunchtime for example.

Its definitely harder to switch off. But again, it's something the person needs to take control of. But just as wfh doesn't work for all jobs it doesn't work for all people and their families. It will make things better for alot, worse for alot. Which is why hybrid is better.

Your dp could still mix with people, he didn't HAVE to put weight on. He could go for a walk. Or it could be that it doesn't work for him.

Its a complicated issue and I don't think anyone can say wfh works for everyone and every job.

In my industry we have seen a trend of people leaving employers that are forcing people back full time, to come to employers like mine that is offering percent hybrid. But I suspect of companies enforce wfh for teb majority of the time, we will see a trend of people leaving those employers for an employer who offers office working or hybrid.

So again, I think offering hybrid is a better offering from employers. If you like to work in an office most hybrid employers will allow you to work from the office as much as you want. But you could also wfh if the boiler engineer is coming (or whatever the reason you want to is).

Choice is never a bad thing, even if you don't ever exercise that choice.

So after the mammoth post I do agree to a point. I don't think wfh is inherently bad, but not inherently good either. I think hybrid offers the beat of both, if its possible to do.

Oh and also most people I know, who are saving money on the commute and coffees are spending it elsewhere. So is still going into the economy.

We couldn't go back ft into the office post pandemic even if we wanted to. The company is using the opportunity to redesign offices and get rid of some properties and desks are being replaced by touchdown areas with stools rather than chairs, so anyone over the age of 30 is dooming themselves to months of physiotherapy if they do work in the office.
Ironically anyone with a special desk set up will still have their own desk. Might exaggerate my back issues so I can get one as it's the only way I can work in the office.
Company has paid an absolute fortune to get everyone set up from home, so in a way I don't blame them.

The thing that worries me about so many working from home is the impact it will have on younger employees just starting out. I’m sure all the people in their comfy jobs wfh had the benefit of older more experienced employees to gain knowledge from when they first started, but now it’s their turn to give that back they want to stay home to make their own lives more convenient. It seems very selfish to me.

I disagree.

My local shops and food outlets are benefitting,

Public transport is overpriced and commutes are hellish.

I'm so much happier and more productive at home without constant disruptions in the office, calls, office politics.

We are both wfh. Fortunately, we have the space.

I think the contrary

If wfh was not offered I'd struggle to see my dc and would have an adverse quality of family life. I can work late easily and not stick to fixed hours. I easily have calls with international offices. 2 hours of commuting can be replaced with 20 minutes exercise. I go in once a week but any more it is negative for me

WFH is amazing for me. No spending 3 hours a day and £400 a month commuting. Get to take my DS to school and see him much more. Our team is spread across the UK and the globe so we already had a remote working culture. Just now those office based are now also remote.

We make sure we organise weekly socials etc to keep up the camaraderie and use the office for occasions when we do need to meet in person.

It's certainly a bad thing from a customer service point of view. I rang a department of a High Street bank on Monday and got the speech about staff working from home due to Covid at the beginning of the menu. Only It's not now due to Covid - it's due to the financial institution seeing how it can save money and having told it's staff that they'll never be going back into the office (where they've been able to WFH during the pandemic). I know this as one of my friends works for them and is now home based permanently.

I was told I would get a call back in 2-3 days to implement my request. I'm still waiting - for something which would previously have been dealt with in call number 1.

Dvla was slow pre pandemic

I think there has to be a balance. Not a popular view, but in general people are a lot less productive than they think they are, because very few people work exclusively from home. I.e. you go into your home office at 9 and don’t come out until 12:30, and then go back in at 1:30 and don’t come out until 5. So many people just “nip out to put the washing on/hang the washing out/do the school run/answer the door” and the list goes on, whereas these are things you shouldn’t be doing in the working day. You’re at work, not at home, and most people find it impossible to be that disciplined.

And how many companies have we heard that “we may be delayed in calling back due to the pandemic” because in truth call centre staff aren’t working as efficiently from home and as a result customer service has plummeted.

And then there’s training, learning a job, joining an organisation where you will never get to meet your colleagues face to face because you work from home. I know people who have started new jobs during the pandemic and they have felt completely on the sidelines because colleagues who did previously work together know each other and they’re an incomer who has never met any of them.

There are definitely pro’s to working from home, but I think it’s unrealistic to expect full-time working from home to remain, unless you’re working in a role where you’re not responsible to or for anyone else.

Oh and my driving license and passport have both come back at ridiculously fast speeds!

Well I've WFH for 5 years and will never go back to an office.

Personally I’ve been back in the office 3 days a week for the last month and it’s been great.

I’d be looking for another job if my employer told me I had to spend the rest of my life locked in my bedroom 5 days a week.

DVLA being fast or slow isn’t the point though. The point is I’ve no way of contacting them about it.

It’s a side moan but it is frustrating.

Swings and roundabouts.

It’s been a massive benefit for me personally: allows me both to spend more time with my DD and to be more productive.

But I appreciate there have been damaging effects for the economy and it’s not great if you are young, single and live in a flatshare.

I personally like wfh. I have more time to do stuff. I can try and arrange medical appts more easily. I can visit and support relatives further away.

Just propping up city centres and public transport is a bit silly. There are apparently lots of vacancies at the moment - so I don’t think there is currently a large issue with unemployment. More commuting may not be as great for environment.

Totally get that wfh doesn’t suit everyone; but surely it’s better to have more options?

@HeartsAndClubs but conversely there is down time when you work in an office, like chatting to a coworker about the weekend or pleasantries when walking to a meeting. Hanging up the washing takes about the same time as a chat, but is much less enjoyable.