To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

[user1497207191]

@PostItNow

It's not about being cheaper - it's about value for money, if we have to chase, spend an hour or more on a phone queue, have to spend time fixing things that have been done incorrectly, or we get shitty attitude that results in our people being pissed off and frustrated, saving a few pennies doesn't work in the long run.

I agree, I wouldn't put up with a sub-optimal service just because it's cheaper. My time and stress is worth more than that. I want all my service providers and supplier to do their job to a good standard, and that includes availability, service delivery, meeting deadlines, etc. I can earn much more by being productive and efficient than I'd ever save in monetary terms by cheaper/substandard suppliers that would make me less efficient and have less time for chargeable work.

[PostItNow]

It's not about being cheaper - it's about value for money, if we have to chase, spend an hour or more on a phone queue, have to spend time fixing things that have been done incorrectly, or we get shitty attitude that results in our people being pissed off and frustrated, saving a few pennies doesn't work in the long run.

[Rollercoaster1920]

Interesting points about suppliers. I would avoid giving work to a supplier with a barking dog on the background, or one always unavailable during the afternoon for meetings. But if they are cheaper there might be an argument to put up with that.

Interesting times.

[PostItNow]

@Peaseblossum22 we haven’t seen the sloppiness with our own people but we have experienced poor service levels at times from our suppliers - some have pulled it together and are back to normal others haven’t and they are on their way out, chasing people to do their job, is not something we tolerate for long.

[user1497207191]

@Peaseblossum22ea I agree but I think in the last 12 months people's barriers have broken down a bit and guidelines have been blurred . People seem to have lost some of their common sense quite frankly and do things that they would never have dreamed of pre pandemic. The other thing is that some more junior staff have now had very little if any time in the office so they are not developing the professional norms of behaviour by osmosis and are needing to have them spelled out.

I fully agree. We're seeing a lot of sloppiness, missed deadlines, lack of attention to detail, etc. Not just with our service providers/suppliers, but also with our clients. Emails are routinely ignored, letters/forms sent to clients for signature are coming back unsigned, etc. We're finding that almost everyone needs chasing up whereas pre covid, most people would do things when asked and only a minority would need reminders/chasers.

As for your comments re junior staff, yes fully agree with that too. I expect a lot of firms will find their junior staff simply aren't ready/capable of stepping up as per previous/normal timescales. It could cause quite a void in some firms who rely on development of younger/trainee staff to fill more senior roles. And, of course, if junior staff remain in junior positions for longer timescales as they are slower to gain experience/skills/maturity, etc., it stops the next generation of younger staff from being taken on.

[EvilPea]

The next few years are going to be interesting that’s for sure.
I’d been sure we would have a roaring 20’s with travel and concerts.

But now we have price rises on food and energy I can’t see swaths of people having the spare money.

The reason I mention this on this thread is the coffee shop prices may be more out of reach than before for people. Commuting will cost more as well

I do agree on younger people needing to be in a workplace to learn how to communicate and behave, this generation more than previous ones.


I don’t believe there’s a one bullet answer though

[Peaseblossum22]

[quote PostItNow]@Peaseblossum22 but all our client conversations are not confidential. We normally work in a shared office space (with other businesses) and pre pandemic we often worked at a desk at a client site but not necessarily doing work for that client all day - we have always expected our people to be able to manage confidential conversations, booking a phone booth or a meeting room for privacy when needed - nothing has changed.[/quote]
I agree but I think in the last 12 months people's barriers have broken down a bit and guidelines have been blurred . People seem to have lost some of their common sense quite frankly and do things that they would never have dreamed of pre pandemic. The other thing is that some more junior staff have now had very little if any time in the office so they are not developing the professional norms of behaviour by osmosis and are needing to have them spelled out.

[user1497207191]

@TheKeatingFive

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etx)

It won’t be tolerated for much longer. Our MD is already moving away from various companies because of this kind of carry on. During the pandemic, fine, needs must. Now, he’s of the view that it isn’t good enough.

I agree. I've already sacked our solicitor and our website designer. Both were taking the piss when "multi-tasking" when they should have been concentrating during important phone and skype calls resulting in them making mistakes, missing deadlines, etc. As you say, that was fine and I tolerated it during the lockdowns, but now lockdowns are over, kids are back at school, and life is "normal" for the vast majority, they have no excuse for not working as normal which means concentration, no distractions and meeting deadlines.

[PostItNow]

@CrumpetyTea

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etc)
I do this - it's just compromising/multitasking- often someone asks me to be on a call at the last minute or a call overruns or its the only way to fir a call into my schedule- i wouldn't do it if i needed to concentrate on the other task.It just means that you aren't fully there for your kids.
Re WFH-I'm in Australia and we had WFH for several months then back to work and now WFH again - there was a lot of whingeing when we were back in the office but its only now we're back wfh that it is very obvious how much more effective we are as a group/business being in the office- its all the micro interactions that you miss wfh- not to mention the building of relationships at work which is so much easier face to face. I think currently we are still able to leverage existing relationships - the longer away from the office the worse these relationships are

Agree!

[CrumpetyTea]

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etc)
I do this - it's just compromising/multitasking- often someone asks me to be on a call at the last minute or a call overruns or its the only way to fir a call into my schedule- i wouldn't do it if i needed to concentrate on the other task.It just means that you aren't fully there for your kids.
Re WFH-I'm in Australia and we had WFH for several months then back to work and now WFH again - there was a lot of whingeing when we were back in the office but its only now we're back wfh that it is very obvious how much more effective we are as a group/business being in the office- its all the micro interactions that you miss wfh- not to mention the building of relationships at work which is so much easier face to face. I think currently we are still able to leverage existing relationships - the longer away from the office the worse these relationships are

[PostItNow]

@Peaseblossum22 but all our client conversations are not confidential. We normally work in a shared office space (with other businesses) and pre pandemic we often worked at a desk at a client site but not necessarily doing work for that client all day - we have always expected our people to be able to manage confidential conversations, booking a phone booth or a meeting room for privacy when needed - nothing has changed.

[Rhinothunder]

*breakfast club

[Rhinothunder]

Agreed. Plus these aren't surprise calls- they are scheduled meetings. Put the kids in breakfastcin / get a nanny!

[TheKeatingFive]

Just to be clear, we’re not talking about taking an unscheduled call. It’s the constant dialling into Teams meetings while clearly on the go/attention elsewhere.

[TheKeatingFive]

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etx)

It won’t be tolerated for much longer. Our MD is already moving away from various companies because of this kind of carry on. During the pandemic, fine, needs must. Now, he’s of the view that it isn’t good enough.

[Peaseblossum22]

@PostItNow

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etx)
This is tolerated because these people are talented, can easily demonstrate how much money they make for their companies and are expected to work well over contracted hours. The clients despite being very senior are human beings too and have life going on around them....holidays, evening and weekends are no excuse for not working though. We just dropped our kids at Uni at the weekend - dh took Friday off and we stayed overnight in a hotel - but a client wanted a piece of work done on Friday but comprised on Saturday morning 8am. Dh got up at 4am and did the piece of work - this is normal - the client always gets what they want but they aren't always as demanding. As for chatting at the school gate - it's no different to chatting in an open plan office space. If a conversation is confidential - you find somewhere private to take it. Dh will often take a client call whilst we are travelling in the car together, clients want him to join the call, people have busy diaries so they have to be flexible.

Thats fine , but there is a massive issue with confidentiality. I am in one of these professions as is my husband and I know of several cases now where information has been disclosed in such circumstances. In one case a barrister was discussing a client matter is a public place (think school property) , something I am sure they would never have dreamed of doing pre pandemic.

The scenarios which you describe happened pre pandamic and are frankly perfectly normal practice for senior associates , partners etc We have just come back from holiday and my husband had to deal with several matter as did I, but the more flexible ways of working have resulted in a blurring of boundaries which has not all been positive.

[PostItNow]

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etx)
This is tolerated because these people are talented, can easily demonstrate how much money they make for their companies and are expected to work well over contracted hours. The clients despite being very senior are human beings too and have life going on around them....holidays, evening and weekends are no excuse for not working though. We just dropped our kids at Uni at the weekend - dh took Friday off and we stayed overnight in a hotel - but a client wanted a piece of work done on Friday but comprised on Saturday morning 8am. Dh got up at 4am and did the piece of work - this is normal - the client always gets what they want but they aren't always as demanding. As for chatting at the school gate - it's no different to chatting in an open plan office space. If a conversation is confidential - you find somewhere private to take it. Dh will often take a client call whilst we are travelling in the car together, clients want him to join the call, people have busy diaries so they have to be flexible.

[Rhinothunder]

Yes exactly . Aside from the confidentiality issues etc, they're just ignoring their kids who you can see trying to tell them important stuff about their day. So wierd. I've even had a conversation with someone who turns out was also listening in on a meeting which only came to light when they interrupted what we were talking about to contribute to their work chat! Bizarre!

[rookiemere]

You've articulated that well @Rhinothunder , it's exactly how I feel atm, in fact should be working right now .

Re the PWC types at school gates - I have a few friends who work for that type of company, and they encourage the whole blending of work and home. So they don't have separate home emails and take calls whenever and wherever. On the surface it's lovely and means people can pick up their DCs, but the flip-side is that they are never properly off from work - our friend took a work call when we were away.

Some people like living like that, I couldn't bear it and it's one of the reasons I've shyed away from any further promotions, as I need my downtime to be my own.

[RobinPenguins]

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etx)

Yeah I’m public sector and we would not get away with that. And rightly so, tbh, I don’t think it’s acceptable. Would be pretty fucked off if we were paying £££ of public money for our consultants to be picking up their kids while meetings were happening, so hopefully they keep it to internal calls only.

[Rhinothunder]

Fair point re the travel costs.

Obviously hard core wfh people have sturdier mental health than me!

By the end I felt so isolated and particularly disconnected from my job. Spent wfh days fitting g chores around the house/ kids around work .

Never fully focused on home or work. Just blended together. It's been a new lease of life getting back into the office. Now home is home and work is work again. Been great for productivity and enthusiasm for both work and home life.

Still amazes me to see professional people on conference calls on airpods at the school gate- how their companies and clients tolerate it I've no idea (these aren't fools with silly jobs- I'm taking pwc / KPMG/ lawyers etx)

[Hrpuffnstuff1]

This thread is hilarious because we have the wfh on one side and office bods on another.
One party is looking over at the other demanding that they do this that and the other, basically gossiping and sniping at each other.

It's like a virtual office.


And to think some miss that culture.

[Hullbilly]

@Rhinothunder

It will also be interesting to see what rising energy costs do to peoples willingness to wfh.

Personally I hate it and am super glad to be back in the office.

It won't be a patch on the £400 pcm we were paying on fares and petrol previously.

[Tealightsandd]

@Rhinothunder

It will also be interesting to see what rising energy costs do to peoples willingness to wfh.

Personally I hate it and am super glad to be back in the office.

I don't think it will have huge impact. Those most in favour of full-time WFH will be more affluent and more able to shoulder the extra energy costs. The price increases will hit the people already hit hard by WFH. Those on low incomes - who can't afford a suitable WFH environment. It's one blow after another for the lower paid. Stuck trying to work in cramped and/inappropriate conditions, the £20 UC cut, and now this.

I hope going forwards we'll see a more balanced fairer approach wrt WFH (and a repeal of the £20 UC cut). More flexibility particularly for the disabled, carers, and the CEV is great. Full-time WFH for the majority isn't so much.

[LST]

@Rhinothunder

It will also be interesting to see what rising energy costs do to peoples willingness to wfh.

Personally I hate it and am super glad to be back in the office.

The office is always too cold for me and I aren't sure it would be welcome to wear my slippers and dressing gown under blankets at the office !