To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

[RobinPenguins]

Really surprised during the pandemic that not more businesses have set up a mobile offering. Maybe I should jack in my job which I now hate because wfh and set one up.

Why do they need to set up a mobile offering? According to lots of WFH aficionados it’s revitalising local high streets because people are definitely going out and using them every day and not just staying at home making their own sandwiches…

[mewkins]

@RandomLondoner

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

These points are silly. Services don't exist for their own sake, they exist to service demand.

You don't have someone making coffee because that's their job and if they didn't do it they wouldn't have a job. They make coffee to the extent that people are willing to pay to have it made, and when that demand goes away, the coffee maker needs to find something else to do, that is more useful than making cups of coffee no-one is drinking.

The interests of the barista are completely incidental to the coffee-serving business. If someone invents a robot that can do his job more cheaply, then his job can and should disappear. He needs to go away and do something else that robots can't yet do.

Agreed. It's bonkers to think that people are spending money and time each day to get to a workplace in order to keep a coffee bar in business!

[Nhytfdetykbcz]

On another point about WFH. My commute is just under 30 miles, mostly motorway. Now that I mostly work from home, it's saving that pollution that my petrol car kicks out. That is good.

[discombobulatedonion]

I agree. When I started my current job, I was in the office for the first 4 weeks for training. That was back in March. Now I’ve been there nearly 7 months and I WFH more than I’m in the office. Unfortunately I can’t do much about that as they are rotating who is in the office each week, and it just happens that because I work part time, it’s easier to have me WFH.
I love my job and admittedly they are very flexible, but I hate WFH. It’s boring and I struggle with work more.

[LastGirlSanding]

@HarrietsChariot

Why not just allow people to work where they feel they are most productive and happiest? Forcing people to return to the office is just as bad as not allowing them to. WFH works for many people and helps the environment. What I lose in face to face interaction I more than make up in efficiency because of fewer interruptions and wellbeing because of reduced stress.

Also, it's not my job to keep sandwich shops and coffee bars going. WFH means people spend less on these things, but the money gets spent somewhere else instead. My local coffee shop might shut due to lack of business, but another business in a different sector gets my money instead.

The problem with saying WFH is bad is that it's a very reactionary view. It basically says that the situation pre-pandemic was normal and must be maintained at all costs. That's not true, society evolves and businesses need to adapt to fit. Businesses have always gone under because they were not used enough. People just spend their money elsewhere.

The DVLA was always shit, by the way. Any business or agency that is a monopoly can afford to be shit because people cannot go elsewhere.

I agree with this. Business and industry adapts to the times. Look at the internet for example which has totally transformed the way we work and the types of jobs on offer - many of which simply didn’t exist 20 years ago. Looking at it that the economy will suffer because things won’t stay exactly the same is short sighted IMO.

[Hekatestorch]

@HarrietsChariot You're meant to get up every hour. Sitting still for hours on end is bad for the eyes and for the body. You should take at least five minutes away from sitting at a desk every hour.

I didn't say anyone should sit at their desk and not get up.

I answered the point that people that wfh don't sit at their desk 9-12.30 being completely productively.

Neither did the vast majority do that in the office. So the comparison is pointless.

[JoanOgden]

@LadyWithLapdog

I also think young people are much more adept at online working and don’t need the physical presence of middle managers to be turbo charged. (And I hope the PP using such language doesn’t use it around the young people in their team, they’ll run a mile.)

I think this is an odd generalisation - young people vary as much as anyone else, and the young people in my team have really appreciated going back 2 days a week.

[Serendipity79]

OP please don't compare your situation to one of domestic abuse, do you realise how insulting that is to people who've gone through it?

Having to sit and watch your DP eat biscuits, and having his voice annoy you from a few Teams calls is not in any way comparable to some of the awful situations that domestic abuse victims found themselves in during the pandemic, where they physically couldn't escape and in many cases the violence escalated. Some even died.

Not comparable at all

[Icenii]

I think it's great that excessive consumerism and consumption is being challenged.

Completely agree with this. We dont exist so that public transport runs, coffee shops are open and city centre thrive. How was that life working for many people? We had a mental health crisis pre covid.

For me, society has to change for all. It may start with some changes that benefit some people more, but we really need to look at ways life can change and be better for all. If WFH works for some people it really should stay and could be that start society needs. In the US, my old organisation had employees do x hours of charity work as part of their objectives. Maybe organisations that eable WFH should actively encourage this too.

I WFH now as I purposely switched to a role last year that was WFH with site visits once a month. I'm no longer leaving the house at 0545. I may not be present in an office for junior staff to learn from, but I am now present for DD and can give her the full support she needs. A good company will put in processes that give grads and junior member what they need. It may be different, and change may not be perfect from day one, but maybe we need to adapt to new ways for working.

And I'd also challenge the idea that people should be chained to their desk for set hours a day. Why? Because other sectors have to work set hours at a set location? Doesn't mean all should. There has to be a way to offer the services society needs and to keep the majority of people working in all those services happy. One change could kick off a whole host of others for other people.

[Newschapter]

I live WFH.

Prior to this I was furloughed for 9 months and that was worse for me than WFH.

I worked between two offices, one was full of colleagues of different natures, some who didn't say good morning, some who were full of the joys of spring all year round, some who bathed and some who sat in running gear all day < not envy

In the other office I was alone. A cold office where the heat never worked and I had to wear a coat. Where I was once verbally assaulted when I was alone and had to get a passer by to come into the premises as I was afraid of a service user. I was also expected to do two different roles in the office I worked in alone, for no more renumeration.

Years ago when we built our house i was studying for a degree, I knew we would like to have kids and I wanted them to have a space to do homework in. We included a study/office into our plans which means I now have a dedicated space where I keep the PC/printer/scanner etc and close the door on the way out.

I can keep in touch with the office via in house chat system, emails, phone calls etc
My manager can contact me any time between 9am and 5pm and I will reply immediately.

Having no commute means I am able to attend a morning gym class, walk the dogs in my lunch break, eat earlier in the evening - speaking for myself I am happier and healthier than when I was in the office. I can see it doesn't work for everyone mind you, but for me it's ideal.

I have a routine, one which involves showering and dressing every single day first thing (like when in the office) there's no excuse for not showering or staying in pyjamas, even when I was sick I was dressed.

I never wore make up so that's not part of my routine, I am happy in my own skin.

I hope I never have to go back full time to the office, but hybrid working may suit me!

[DeborahAnnabel]

I love the nature of WFH because I can do my job flexibly in my own time as long as the job gets done. I guess it helps that I’m fairly senior and am not micro managed but if I need to take my child to a swimming lesson, I can but then I’ll be logging on in the evening after they’re in bed, for example.
However I agree that for juniors and for people without houses and gardens, it’s probably not ideal. I like the idea a hybrid model so 2 days in/3 days home or vice versa.

[Notjustanymum]

I don’t think YABU, but I would point out that your circumstances are leading you to your conclusion.
My circumstances are very different. Before COVID19, I commuted a long distance daily by car, took my own lunch to work and struggled with keeping on top of everything at home. Now I work from home, in my own office (I know that some people don’t have that luxury), my DH is retired, my DC are grown and working, my team is spread out across different sites, so Zoom meetings from my desk in the office or the home office are the same wherever I am.
Since I didn’t use public transport, cafe bars or sandwich kiosks anyway , the only differences between me being in the office or at home are A) I now use hardly any fuel - so I’m contributing less to climate change and B) I’m saving money and time, making my work/life balance much easier!
I think that there should be more flexibility and those that prefer to be in the office should do that, while those that don’t should be allowed to WFH where their role allows it.

[Knittingupastorm]

Actually I agree, it’s bad for the economy in areas where people used to work

Better where they live though.
Our local little high street is busier than ever and the coffee shop has extended its hours. When I was on mat leave just before March 2020 it was very quiet, it’s now got more customers.
My DH works for a company that supplies parts to coffee shops (spares for coffee machines etc etc), and as a business they are doing better than they were pre-pandemic.
It’s not a comfort to the those in city centre locations of course, but everyone going back to the office wouldn’t be good news for our little local coffee shop either.

[Topseyt]

All fair points, but I haven’t entirely changed my mind. We have saved a huge amount of money in fuel costs since working from home. We are fortunate too in that DH has a designated study area upstairs, so that is the only area that is the workplace in our house.

It is a balance that is required in many cases. DH will be working three days a week in the office and two from home as of next week. Alternating at times. It sounds OK to me, but we will see how it goes.

[Hekatestorch]

@Knittingupastorm

Actually I agree, it’s bad for the economy in areas where people used to work

Better where they live though.
Our local little high street is busier than ever and the coffee shop has extended its hours. When I was on mat leave just before March 2020 it was very quiet, it’s now got more customers.
My DH works for a company that supplies parts to coffee shops (spares for coffee machines etc etc), and as a business they are doing better than they were pre-pandemic.
It’s not a comfort to the those in city centre locations of course, but everyone going back to the office wouldn’t be good news for our little local coffee shop either.

Agree with this.

Its moved where people are spending. Not stopped them. And ots more beneficial to them personally to spend locally.

Businesses often have to go through periods of Change and change their business model. The ones suffering, will need to do the same.

[PattyPan]

Some people work in offices and don’t cause any demand on the economy - they drive/cycle/walk to work and take their own lunch.

Many people are more productive due to being able to use their commuting time for work and personally now I’m not in a noisy open plan office I can concentrate much better.

I’m healthier than in the office because I’m less stressed, have stopped snacking, and have more time to exercise - that comes down to how the individual deals with wfh.

No idea what’s going on with the DVLA though. I sent off my licence to update something two months ago and haven’t heard anything. I got an new passport much quicker.

[TheQueenOfDreams]

companies who can, should give their employees a choice. Everyone has different lifestyles and needs and it would be nice if choices could be accommodated.

[WolfKnuckle]

Some people are keen to rush back into old ways, fixed hours and presenteeism.

Businesses and economies can adapt, we once used cameras with film rolls didn't we? There is more technology now and work is different. It could even keep more people employed with less fixed premise costs.

Agree with pp who said it's crazy to spend time and money to keep sandwich and coffee shops alive. Local businesses could benefit.

[Weegiewtf]

So capitalism suffers if the workers aren’t forced to go into a workplace not of their choosing?

People who have taken advantage of workers, in the guise of making things easy for them (coffee kiosks for example) while making profit from them are suffering due to a change in work culture? It’s capitalism 101. It’s the system we choose to live under.

[Flowers500]

Working from home makes me depressed and lonely, killing the only good part of work which is the social aspect. Now you need to make effort to get out of the house, which is a recipe for sinking into doing nothing. It’s fine for maintaining current relationships but a killer to building new ones.

[Iggly]

It does not have to be all or nothing I.e WFH all the time vs office all the time

I think WFH has done wonders for our local town to be honest. More people around, more money going to local businesses.

[Iggly]

@Weegiewtf

So capitalism suffers if the workers aren’t forced to go into a workplace not of their choosing?

People who have taken advantage of workers, in the guise of making things easy for them (coffee kiosks for example) while making profit from them are suffering due to a change in work culture? It’s capitalism 101. It’s the system we choose to live under.

We don’t have any choice. No political party (despite what the screaming daily mail would have you believe) offers an alternative to capitalism.

[speakout]

Having flexibility is ideal.

I love WFH, butt I have done itt for 16 years, I love the lifestyle it gives me.
I rarely found friends or like minded souls in the workplace anyway, and just as I find work motivation easy I also have great motivation to exercise.
I shop in my local community rather than the city centre, supporting small rural businness.
I go to exercises classes - different venues- 5 days a week, I have time to do that instead of commuting, and have meny many new friends that way.
I am not depressed, isolated, or unfit.

I realise it doesn't suit everyone, but is a perfect set up for me.

[LittleGh0st]

It depends on the individual I think. DH and I have been WFH continuously since March 2020 (bar the very occasional day) and we both love it. We don't miss the commute, or the cost of commuting, and it gives us back 2 hours a day each. We find we can concentrate better. We have the space to spread out, which helps. We work in separate rooms but it's nice to have the odd chat, and eat lunch together. And we've made sure to stay in a good routine of showering in the mornings and getting out to the gym or for walks. My company has confirmed I can continue WFH long term. DH has requested the same but is still waiting to hear back.

I get that it doesn't suit every person and every living situation so really there should be a choice where possible.