To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

@Dongdingdong

Perhaps it is what you need and want, however I have noticed bills increased so actually wfh should be compensated for that.

Why should WFHers be compensated for higher bills when they’re saving a packet on transport costs?

Maybe they're not? A lot of people bought a home near work specifically so they didn't need to do a long commute. Why should they have to pay higher bills because their employer decided to make them WFH?

We shouldn't run half empty trains just because disabled people might need them.

Err why do you think Unison is calling on the government to give disabled people a new right to work from home if they w ish and for employers to face penalties if they don’t comply?

[quote gibletjane]**@Rozziie* I'm not sure why you're labelling @Hekatestorch* posts as incoherent as you really aren't making a lot of sense yourself. [/quote]
Perhaps you also need to improve your reading comprehension, then.

@gibletjane

We shouldn't run half empty trains just because disabled people might need them.

Err why do you think Unison is calling on the government to give disabled people a new right to work from home if they w ish and for employers to face penalties if they don’t comply?

You do realise that disabled people often need to go to things like hospital appointments? To visit family? And many would prefer to actually go out to work? Do you think 'disabled people' are some monolithic group?

This is what you have to contend with. It's a hopeless battle. The two tier society is already here - you saw it during covid. The middle classes comfortably working from home, baking bread on the aga and drinking gin in the garden while poor people had to go out and expose themselves to covid for their minimum wage jobs. And these people want to keep that going because guess what...they're alright, Jack!

Again this is way too simplistic & completely ignores the fact the vast majority of people had the " I'm alright, Jack" attitude pre pandemic in terms of how their life choices had a knock on effect on others. You mentioned flying upthread but you are aware that UK & US flight impacts others in poorer countries in terms of climate change so there's that old "I'm alright, Jack" attitude. Eating a frigging avocado is bad for others. I'm just unsure why remote working triggers this weird moral stance but all the other things we do doesn't. If you don't like remote working then fine but you can't take the moral high ground.

You do realise that disabled people often need to go to things like hospital appointments? To visit family? And many would prefer to actually go out to work? Do you think 'disabled people' are some monolithic group?

Why is the above relevant to what I posted? Again why do you think Unison are campaigning for increased remote working rights?

in return for a certain lifestyle

Well my lifestyle felt a bit shit before working from home.

then productivity will slip

No there’s ways to manage that. You focus on outcomes and output not how many hours someone sits in an office.

We also need to acknowledge that there are more benefits to working than money for both society and individual.

So far the benefits to me as an individual are much greater wfh. Society will adapt. Like it has many times.

Work is and will always be about industry and productivity. Not blending it for a cushy home life where you can avoid seeing people you don’t like and swapping them for a dog.

A lot of us and our employers have now realised you can have both. Goddess forbid we should be happier. People like you want us to be miserable.

That’s not to say there isn’t a place for wfh. There is course is, especially as it helps ppl like me balance earning money with childcare. But it should definitely be the exception rather than the norm.

Everyone should be supported to have a good work life balance, not just those with childcare needs. Given the climate emergency and this opportunity to reduce travel and improve wellbeing it should be the norm not the exception. At least a hybrid model should be.

I think this has all started because what we saw as an acceptable commute started to get further and further away.

It was never acceptable. Sometimes you don’t fully realise how bad something was until you get out of it.

Find something closer.

Insulting. Not everyone can. You sound like Norman get on your bike Tebbit. He didn’t say it for climate reasons. (He said it because a lot of Tory politicians don’t really give a shit about ordinary people).

Perhaps you also need to improve your reading comprehension, then.

From what I can read, you remote work but don't like it although you haven't said why you can't change your job or explained why it's ok for you but not others.

What I can't comprehend is why remote working equals vile, selfish & without a thought for others & why you would label yourself as such & your posts haven't enlightened me.

@Mamanyt

I think that a balance between office time and WFH would be ideal. There are a good many businesses in the US that have said that once things are "more under control" (will they ever be if people WILL NOT vaccinate?) they plan on a split week.

Yes they will be , my friend is part of a government study and still has natural antibodies against covid after contracting it ten months ago with no symptoms .

I've been worried about this from the beginning. I will be encouraging my kids not to go into careers where they don't see any colleagues and have to work from their bedrooms for the rest of their lives. It's damaging and isolating for young people to not see anyone from work just because their senior managers want to work from their big houses and gardens. And local cafes won't thrive, most people just eat lunch at home, not spend it locally

"Everyone should be supported to have a good work life balance, not just those with childcare needs. "

I totally agree, but working from home doesn't give a good work-life balance to many people. You have nowhere to really relax as you're constantly at your workplace.

@starlilly88

I've been worried about this from the beginning. I will be encouraging my kids not to go into careers where they don't see any colleagues and have to work from their bedrooms for the rest of their lives. It's damaging and isolating for young people to not see anyone from work just because their senior managers want to work from their big houses and gardens. And local cafes won't thrive, most people just eat lunch at home, not spend it locally

I'm worried about people being worried about young people! It's not just young people who need interaction or training to to see others work to be able to learn from them. But yes obviously if you have a small place wfh is much more difficult and the bosses will always be able to choose whether work or office. I've heard of some who forced all their staff to wfh and then went in themselves because obviously there's no Covid risk then.

My husband and I have worked from home since March 2020. Our employers are both offering a very flexible hybrid model - basically do what you like, as long as the work is done, we don’t care.

I think we’ll probably stagger it so that one of us is home and the other in the office. That way there is someone here for the kids. It’s good to have this option.

However, we are still using nursery and wraparound care (kids are 7 and 4). Could not get a thing done otherwise. I do get a bit annoyed when parents of very young kids are using it as a way to avoid childcare - you’re still supposed to be working, not looking after your kids?

Obviously different kettle of fish if your kids are older and more self sufficient.

I totally agree, but working from home doesn't give a good work-life balance to many people. You have nowhere to really relax as you're constantly at your workplace

I think it depends on the individual. My brother & sil worked 100% remotely pre covid but they often used places where you could go to work (not sure on the name).
But I agree that a choice is the best option, for me hybrid is what works for me.

The young people I know are far more worried about

high rents/buying a house
wage stagnation/increased taxes/less disposable income
never being able to retire as pension won't be enough/state pension age moving out
not having a free at the point of care nhs in the future.

"My brother & sil worked 100% remotely pre covid but they often used places where you could go to work (not sure on the name)."

Co-working spaces? There is one opening near me, but it's £10 a day. It might be cheaper to go for a light lunch in a cafe and have a drink every hour and a half or so.
I just hope we don't get another compulsory wfh order. I'm not in the Uk and it's still highly recommended here.

@gibletjane

The young people I know are far more worried about

high rents/buying a house
wage stagnation/increased taxes/less disposable income
never being able to retire as pension won't be enough/state pension age moving out
not having a free at the point of care nhs in the future.

The young person I know who had to work from his bed should be worried about that if he understands ergonomics! I know another who is a student and was totting up a grand total of 200 steps a day while wfh in just his bedroom with other family members in all the other rooms. I checked and it really was 200 and not 2k steps.

yes something like that. As they are both freelance it was also a way of them socialising. I don't know what they paid but they felt it was with it.

I know another who is a student and was totting up a grand total of 200 steps a day while wfh in just his bedroom with other family members in all the other rooms. I checked and it really was 200 and not 2k steps.

I had days like this as a student where I barely moved from the bed!

I don't think it's the norm to not move from the bed/room though is it? Even during the height of lockdown my local park was rammed with people exercising pre, post work & around lunchtime.
I walk to work through a park & a few yrs ago I would be uncomfortable in certain parts as I wouldn't see a soul. Even at 6am it's busy now.

"I don't think it's the norm to not move from the bed/room though is it?"

Isn't it? He couldn't go to the living room or kitchen as his parents were working in those.
At the height of lockdown, we were only allowed out once and for less than an hour, so yes, it was normal not to move much.

but the lockdown wasn't normal was it?

wfh during a lockdown is not the same as wfh.

Best for me and my job to wfh full time. I had a 2 hour commute each way and wasn't very productive in the office. I brought my own coffee and lunch so it was just the rail fare I spent on- I'm not willing to go in to support public transport though I'm afraid, it cost me £50 a day

@daisytweet

Without a doubt it's bad for mental and physical health and terrible for the economy. It needs to stop.

I’ve lost 6kg and my mental health has improved vastly. I’ve got over £5k back for myself that I’m spending in lots of different places rather than the train company - is that worse for the economy?

@calvados I’ve never worn heels to work (or anywhere) because they are so bad for your feet. Nor do I wear restrictive pencil/suit skirts because I like to be able to move properly. My office also didn’t require suits for men, just shirt (no tie) and trousers. Workwear has been getting less formal for years even before the pandemic.

Agree it should be individual choice where the work is done. I have no problem downing tools at 5pm as my work is fairly low down my life priority list but I know that's not the same for everyone and it's more difficult for many especially if they're having to work in their bedroom in a house share.

YABU

WFH is AMAZING. It has improved my quality of life no end. My production and quality of work is the same, if not more, WFH. I go into the office twice a week still, the trains and tubes are packed!

It's not my job to keep overpriced, tax dodging coffee chains in business